Dumb question...

[redneckcowgirlmn]

Hi,
Dumb question...I've raised horses for 30 years, and now that I'm on a 120 acre farm, I got the bright idea to get a couple of holsteins to raise for beef. Well, back in July I ended up with a preemie bull calf, 5 weeks old when I got him, and a "freemartin" heifer, about 3 1/2 weeks old. The farmer said to feed them milk replacer for a couple weeks, then switch them to feed. Talked to the feed store guy, he sold me some stuff called "Tenderleen", a pellet you mix with cracked corn. Well, they're about 4 1/2 months +/- now, and I've had them in a stall in my horse barn this whole time. It's getting to be a major pain in the you know what to keep them clean, and they're getting more "playful" when I go in. (Haven't castrated the bull yet, he was so little, and got pneumonia about a month ago...vet said to wait 'till he was better. he's still coughing once in a while, but otherwise the snot is done
So, to end the aimless rambling, can I put these 2 out in the pasture with the horses, or am I stuck with them in the barn? Or, if I put them out in a seperate pen, how big does it need to be? I am planning on raising them 'till they're about 16 to 18 months before butchering them.
Thanks

 

[bigbull338]

yes you can put them out in the pastue.but i wouldnt put them in the pasture with the horses.because the horses will chase them most likely.id put the calves in a pasture of their own.you cant feed the horses an calves togather because the horses wont let the calves eat.

 

[MillIronQH]

Kind of, sort of ditto on what BigBull said (Iwouldn't make call on the horses chasing them but the big thing is they are going to be on totally different feed. You need to keep them separate from the horses.Z

 

[Susie David]

Agree...the horses will run the calves.
These calves should have been out in a pen by now. I'd fence off a section of pasture and give the kids some exercise. Alot less work for you...bet that they are pets.
Just my two bits worth...DMc

 

[msscamp]

So, to end the aimless rambling, can I put these 2 out in the pasture with the horses, or am I stuck with them in the barn? Or, if I put them out in a seperate pen, how big does it need to be? I am planning on raising them 'till they're about 16 to 18 months before butchering them.
Thanks

I would not put them in the pasture with my horses - seen too many wrecks happen doing that. Yes, you could put them in another pasture or in a separate pen. Or you could leave them in your horse barn, assuming there is a run/paddock attached to the stall they are currently occupying. As far as the pen size - I keep my bottle calves in a pen that measures apprx 20' X probably 40'. It is not ideal, but it allows them to run around, get some sunshine and fresh air, and they have access to an open shed when the weather is bad. We have also used this pen to house steers destined for the butcher.

 

[john250]

Get them out of that stall, for sure. Separate them from the horses.

 

[sjr725]

I agree, most horse will chase them. Also be aware that some medicated pelleted cattle feeds are fatally toxic to horses - don't let your horses into anyplace you're feeding the calves. Always read the feed labels - it will say if they may be fatal to equines. I'd also cut that bull calf asap - I'm surprised the dairy you got him from didn't band him. I buy probably a dozen or so holstien calves a year and the dairy I buy them from bands all the bull calves within a day of two of birth.

 

[sjr725]

The name of the ingredient in cattle feed that is toxic to horses is Monensin - Sorry I couldn't remember what it was earlier - look for that, and don't let your horses near it. There are a couple of others that can be toxic to horses as well so always read the labels.

 

[redneckcowgirlmn]

Well, Thanks for all the concern about the horses...I was planning on putting the cattle feed in the foal creep feeder, big horses can't get in there to get the medicated cattle feed. Second of all, I think I have the world's only pair of American Quarter Horses that are totally terrified of Holsteins! The funny part is, both are pretty fair team-penning horses, but these 2 calves I have scare the bejeezus out of my horses.
But, I think I will just keep them all apart, as everyone suggested...it would be pretty imbarrassing if the vet had to come out and fix my horses if the calves hurt them! LOL!
My Vet was the one that said to wait on castrating the bull...wanted to wait 'till the pneumonia was better, and he was the one that said to keep them in. I was just asking here about moving them out, since my vet seems to be pretty busy, and hasn't called back on this issue.
So, Thanks, everyone!
~m~ :roll: :roll:

 

[sjr725]

Just kindof a funny story - I have a 4 yr old gelding that last year used to back himself up to the calf pen so that they could lick his hind legs - I think he was liking the massage effect! Bad Side effect though is that they ate his tail clear off to the bone! I thought I'd have the only calves around that would die of a hairball! Anyhow, after all that, and he lives all winter right accros the fence from 370 cows with calves and loved the little holstiens in the pen behind the barn, we took him last spring to push the cows up to mountain pasture and when I unloaded him at the corrals, he acted like he'd never seen a cow - he was spooking all over the place and kinda woulda liked to buck a little bit! These were the exact same cows he looked at all winter - only now then been hauled up to the corrals! Horses - go figure?

 

[msscamp]

The name of the ingredient in cattle feed that is toxic to horses is Monensin

Rumensin is also toxic to horses.

 

[MillIronQH]

The name of the ingredient in cattle feed that is toxic to horses is Monensin

Rumensin is also toxic to horses.

Also urea (sp?) especially to pregnant mares. It can cause abortions and sterility.Z

 

[msscamp]

The name of the ingredient in cattle feed that is toxic to horses is Monensin

Rumensin is also toxic to horses.

Also urea (sp?) especially to pregnant mares. It can cause abortions and sterility.Z

I might be wrong on this, but I thought it was the urea in rumensin and monensin that made it toxic? That certainly doesn't mean that those are the only two means of delivery, though.

 

[Roadapple]

I guess my Belgian mares did'nt read the book on chasing cattle, as mine eat at the same bale feeder as my cows.Never seen them chasing them either. Calves like to lick on 'em and they seem to enjoy it.

 

[redneckcowgirlmn]

LOL, you guys crack me up!Thanks for the multiple warnings on feeding my horses cow food, I think I got it now. :roll:
So... will my calves stay in 4 strands of smooth twisted wire or do I need to get an electric fencer? I have a seperate pen, about 65 feet by 100 feet, it has the 4 strands already up, it's about 4 feet high. The boyfriend says they'll just push right through it unless I heat it up...(there's grass in there, it'll keep 'em busy 'till the snow flies). My arguement is that out West, in AZ, where I grew up, I saw thousands of range cattle in 3-wire fencing, no hot wire... are MN dairy cattle that much different? It's only 2, for cryin' out loud!!!

 

[Beef11]

Just kindof a funny story - I have a 4 yr old gelding that last year used to back himself up to the calf pen so that they could lick his hind legs - I think he was liking the massage effect! Bad Side effect though is that they ate his tail clear off to the bone! I thought I'd have the only calves around that would die of a hairball! Anyhow, after all that, and he lives all winter right accros the fence from 370 cows with calves and loved the little holstiens in the pen behind the barn, we took him last spring to push the cows up to mountain pasture and when I unloaded him at the corrals, he acted like he'd never seen a cow - he was spooking all over the place and kinda woulda liked to buck a little bit! These were the exact same cows he looked at all winter - only now then been hauled up to the corrals! Horses - go figure?

I saw a guy hauling a two year old gelding in the same trailer as 12 2-10 day old holstein bull calves. He opened that trailer and those calves were sucking on him everywhere (yes there to). Horse didn't seem to mind abit. Dangdest thing i'd seen in awhile.

 

[msscamp]

Just kindof a funny story - I have a 4 yr old gelding that last year used to back himself up to the calf pen so that they could lick his hind legs - I think he was liking the massage effect! Bad Side effect though is that they ate his tail clear off to the bone! I thought I'd have the only calves around that would die of a hairball! Anyhow, after all that, and he lives all winter right accros the fence from 370 cows with calves and loved the little holstiens in the pen behind the barn, we took him last spring to push the cows up to mountain pasture and when I unloaded him at the corrals, he acted like he'd never seen a cow - he was spooking all over the place and kinda woulda liked to buck a little bit! These were the exact same cows he looked at all winter - only now then been hauled up to the corrals! Horses - go figure?

I saw a guy hauling a two year old gelding in the same trailer as 12 2-10 day old holstein bull calves. He opened that trailer and those calves were sucking on him everywhere (yes there to). Horse didn't seem to mind abit. Dangdest thing i'd seen in awhile.

We used to have a gelding that we would routinely put a young bull in with when we were hauling him to the cows. The bull would stomp around in circles, and everytime he went under the geldings neck, Red would take a chunk out of his butt. It didn't take very long before he learned to stand in the corner and chill out.

 

[mtncows]

I 'd like to point out to the author that any question asked with sincerity when trying to learn something is NOT a dumb question.They are reserved for questions which are asked to make someone look foolish when you know the answer already which is not the case here

 

[redneckcowgirlmn]

Thanks, I wasn't sure[Dumb Question]...
Anyways, I answered my own question on if they would stay in the fence...(NOT!) and apparently hot wire doesn't phase them either. So, they get to stay in the barn 'till I get a few minutes to run down to the city and buy some cattle panels and t-posts. Are they too young to eat NOW??? LOL![/quote]

 

[ChrisB]

Hey Neighbor!

When we used to have dairy cows, we had to train the calves to get used to a fence when they were turned out. If you can do it inside the barn somehow so they can't get into too much trouble when they go through the fence that may be the best. Otherwise we used to hang shiney pieces of metal from the fence that the calves would come sniff and get a shock, they learned pretty fast to stay away from the fence. But we always had some go through the fence a time or two before they learned.

By the way, we also used the Tend-R-Lean program for a while, but we didn't crack the corn. It's a good program, especially for dairy steers.