Drought question

[denoginnizer]

Is it better to feed hay before all the grass is eaten or would it be better to feed hay while there is a little grass still left?

 

[ALACOWMAN]

its best too feed while there is still some grass because it will recover quicker with the foliage thats left. plus you might kill a good stand grazed too short especially clover

 

[msscamp]

The shorter the grass is grazed, the more additional stress is placed on it and the quicker it will die.

 

[Hippie Rancher]

The shorter the grass is grazed, the more additional stress is placed on it and the quicker it will die.

I would qualify that with this: Most perrenial grass can tolerate very severe grazing just fine, but the key is to not let it get regrazed before those roots have had a chance to recover.

 

[mnmtranching]

I feed hay before the grass is completly gone, you don't want weight loss. And cattle are still going to overgraze if their let on the pasture and it will take longer for the grass to come back when the rain does come. If you are as dry as we are here the grass is brown and it will take a lot of wet weather to bring it back.

mnmt

 

[Hippie Rancher]

if that grass is already brown, it isn't going to matter how short you graze it, it is dormant - none of those leaves are going to turn green and grow again.

There may be other reasons for leaving that stuff standing, but you can't really "overgraze" dormant plants.

Agree, move the herd off when it starts to rain, don't put 'em back till plants have recovered.

 

[Texan]

if that grass is already brown, it isn't going to matter how short you graze it, it is dormant - none of those leaves are going to turn green and grow again.

There may be other reasons for leaving that stuff standing, but you can't really "overgraze" dormant plants.

This is not true for southern pasture grasses like Bermudagrass. I find that my Bermuda bounces back much quicker when I leave more leaf. Apparently, it's not true for rangeland, either:

"The philosophy that grazing can not hurt a drought stricken plant is erroneous. Good grazing management is even more critical in times of drought. Plants need as much leaf material present as possible in order to take advantage of any moisture that does occur to produce energy for its roots and basal buds. The less energy the plant is able to provide its roots the more vulnerable it becomes to the drought and to grazing."

http://www.wyorange.net/Drought/anperf.html


But to answer the original question (kinda), I would strongly encourage you to sell cattle before you overgraze hard or feed hay this early. You can always buy cattle back if you have grass. Graze it down to the ground and you may be out of business for a long time.

 

[Bez?]

I know I probably am starting to sound like a broken record - but go and find some old straw bales. Feed them out when there is still grass on the ground.

Cows love it if it is more than two years old - especially oat straw. Wheat straw is the number two favourite.

Usually it is cheaper than hay and therefore the price difference can allow some trucking costs before it becomes too expensive.

There is more nutrition in straw than most people give it credit for.

Keep some mineral and water handy so there is no impaction problem.

Bez?

 

[stocky]

Denog, When the grass turns brown and dry I keep hay out for the cows. I keep round bales out and they will eat what they need. I agree that if you graze the grass into the ground, it will be slower to come back and you can kill it. Dont make your cows eat it into the ground to keep their bellies full. They will lose weight and not do well and be hard to sell if you have to. I would also agree it would be good to consider cutting your numbers if you are feeding hay the first of July. I am not from your area, so I am not familiar with when you should start receiving rain. At home, if you feed hay now, you cant expect rain until October so you need to sell a bunch of cattle. It is really dry here but we have a good growth of grass, but I am still going to sell about 100 head of cow-calf pairs and calves off the cow the week after the 4th, to be ready in case we dont get rain until fall. The prices are good, so it makes the decision easy. If prices were regular drought prices, the decision would be alot tougher.

 

[msscamp]

The shorter the grass is grazed, the more additional stress is placed on it and the quicker it will die.

I would qualify that with this: Most perrenial grass can tolerate very severe grazing just fine, but the key is to not let it get regrazed before those roots have had a chance to recover.

That may be true in your area, but it is not true in mine. If you 'very severely' graze pastures here, you better have a lot of land to fall back on or plan on feeding hay for the year (possibly more depending on weather and how 'severely grazed' they were) that it takes the pasture to recover. Under drought conditions (which were the conditions specified by the original poster) it probably will not recover.

 

[Hippie Rancher]

I suspect "drought stricken" grass is still alive. At least out here if it is brown or yellow and crispy as a pile of dry straw it is DEAD, just like hair. It won't matter if you cut it 1/2 inch or leave 6 inches - its still dead hair and it isn't going to grow new green out of any of that dead material. Almost all perrenial grass starts new growth from basal shoots, so while some of that standing dead matter may provide a little shade and possibly a little more moisture retention, it really doesn't matter to the plant if it is there or not. Could be grazed by a cow horse, sheep, grasshopper or a fire, the new stuff will be coming from the base, not that dead, dry standing material.

I think some of you especially in the SE may not see much dry standing thatch, because it breaks down with high humidity, but out here it can actually be DETRIMENTAL to the plant, shading it and choking it out with all that old dry oxidized junk.

Now if you let something graze that new green growth before the roots recover you have a problem, and will eventually kill it. But when it's dormant...I don't think so.

Keep in mind I am only talking about the grass itself. As I said, there are other reasons for leaving standing grass. Cover for wildlife, emergency feed storage, fuel for fire in control burn situations, aesthetic reasons etc (folks just love to look at tall wavy grass, ask any environmentalist - the only way they can tolerate short grass is if it is burned off, they have no tolerance for a cow eating it and most of them couldn't tell a healthy grass plant if their lives depended on it.)

 

[Bluestem]

Last year had 13 inches of rain (I'm in the 28-32 inch rain belt). Have not had any rain since the first few days in may. And I no longer keep track of rain fall totals. I've culled down to my best stock. moved them to one pasture. Feeding wheat straw sprinkled with a little garlic power. With plenty of free choice minerals and water. Why did I move them to one pasture? Its a bermuda pasture, will recover ok when it rains again, and I've saved the others from damage. If I have any water in my tanks in September, plan to use it to irrigate to get a winter pasture, as hay is in very short supply. If there is no water left in the tanks, well hope I don't have to cross that bridge. Good luck

 

[johndeerefarmer]

Bermuda is very drought tolerant and actually amazing. Even common bermuda in my lawn can be brown and after an over night rain it will be green the next morning. (If only we could get an overnite rain).

I have 8 tons of fertilizer laying in the hayfields for 7 weeks still waiting on a shower. :x
Nothing like seeing $2500 laying on top of the ground doing nothing...........

 

[GMN]

Bermuda is very drought tolerant and actually amazing. Even common bermuda in my lawn can be brown and after an over night rain it will be green the next morning. (If only we could get an overnite rain).

I have 8 tons of fertilizer laying in the hayfields for 7 weeks still waiting on a shower. :x
Nothing like seeing $2500 laying on top of the ground doing nothing...........

Thats got to be rough. Doesn't fertilizer after awhile without rain, just burn up the field even more?

GMN

 

[johndeerefarmer]

Bermuda is very drought tolerant and actually amazing. Even common bermuda in my lawn can be brown and after an over night rain it will be green the next morning. (If only we could get an overnite rain).

I have 8 tons of fertilizer laying in the hayfields for 7 weeks still waiting on a shower. :x
Nothing like seeing $2500 laying on top of the ground doing nothing...........

Thats got to be rough. Doesn't fertilizer after awhile without rain, just burn up the field even more?

GMN

No, it didn't hurt the grass. I applied 400 lbs of 25-25-0 and the phosphor finally dissolved after we got a couple of morning dews. The nitrogen is still laying on top of the ground. If you apply too much, you can burn the grass........

 

[tom4018]

Feeding wheat straw sprinkled with a little garlic power.

What does that do? Does it make more appetizing?

 

[GMN]

Bermuda is very drought tolerant and actually amazing. Even common bermuda in my lawn can be brown and after an over night rain it will be green the next morning. (If only we could get an overnite rain).

I have 8 tons of fertilizer laying in the hayfields for 7 weeks still waiting on a shower. :x
Nothing like seeing $2500 laying on top of the ground doing nothing...........

Thats got to be rough. Doesn't fertilizer after awhile without rain, just burn up the field even more?

GMN

No, it didn't hurt the grass. I applied 400 lbs of 25-25-0 and the phosphor finally dissolved after we got a couple of morning dews. The nitrogen is still laying on top of the ground. If you apply too much, you can burn the grass........

Good to know. We only fertilized one hay field this year, and the sudan that we planted on our bottom, just too expensive at over $300 for a ton of any kind of fertilizer. If you don't put enough on, doesn't pay to do it at all, is kind of what we always say. Glad we didn't do much, because the lack of rain in March and April and May, everyone who did spend alot of money on fertilizer this year says they shouldn't have. I just took soil samples in for my fileds on Friday, I know some of them are going to need lime, and whatever else, always the cost, is a worry for us, so it will probably be pick one field at a time over the next year, and take it slow, till all the fields can get done.

Hope it rains soon, kind of makes me sick to look out when I do chores, and see our hay fileds and pasture lands, turning dry and brown.

GMN

 

[ALACOWMAN]

also the extra bit of foliage left dead or not will helps hold moisture. and prevent run off and erosion which wiil expose some roots and then the plant would be killed when the cows jerks them out of the ground

 

[Hippie Rancher]

ALACOWMAN wrote

also the extra bit of foliage left dead or not will helps hold moisture. and prevent run off and erosion which wiil expose some roots and then the plant would be killed when the cows jerks them out of the ground

I did say it might help with moisture retention a bit and that there were other reasons for leaving it, however my point was that it really didnn't matter to the plant if it was removed or not.

The erosion issue is more complicated around here when you are talking about perrenial bunchgrasses, becasue there is almost alway a lot of bare ground between plants - they don't tiller like bermuda and some others - so the objective is often to try and get that space as filled as you can. If you have a mess of old dead matter standing in each clump of grass, it can be hard to get new plants established. Need to knock that crud down or eat some of it.

 

[Hippie Rancher]

Also maybe I need to clarify: I am talking about "wild" range, here - not improved or cultivated pastures.

I don't have any experience in that area - wouldn't have a clue, except just in general biological/ecological terms.