DNA Testing - your thoughts Please.
- Thread starter vclavin
- Start date
novaman
Well-known member
I look at it the opposite way. I see it as being very exciting as the more knowledge we obtain the better we can do at breeding. After a few years of breeding you would be able to advance genetics very rapidly and run a herd that is far better than could ever be had by using a couple EPD's and crossing the fingers. I think this is getting more fun all the time. By the way RD, the cost of this sort of technology does come down. It's no different than such things as sexed semen and other technologies that were very expensive at introduction. As it catches on and newer more efficient methods of testing are discovered, the cost will drop.Herefords.US":399xeaai said:
novaman
Well-known member
I'm not going to argue with you or try to change your thinking. What works for you is what works for you. I would however like to point out that while ultrasounding tells you what the animal is expressing, it does show you the genetic potential the animal does or doesn't possess. Plenty of genetic materials aren't expressed but can be carried to offspring. Just something to think about. Have a good one!Jovid":1hp1o9rg said:
Genomic evaluations on animals are going to be much superior to epd's.....eventually. The trouble I see on the horizon is that the data base to evaluate the beef genome as we search for individual markers is going to be the breed association epd data bases. Frankly I find that data base so irrelevant I see no way to make speedy progress. Genomic information is coming though and I for one will be very glad to see the shell game passed off as breeding information (epd's) replaced.
novaman":8iagkmbi said:
Why wouldn't the ultrasound data from the offspring of animal indicate the genetic potential of that animal?
I agree that many genes can be carried and not expressed and that really confirms the need to not spend the money DNA testing for marbling, tenderness, and feed efficiency. Just because they have the gene doesn't mean it will show up in their offspring.
Up until this year we had all are cattle GeneStar tested.
novatech
Well-known member
What does it mean when they don't carry the gene?Jovid":8can4qyo said:
novatech
Well-known member
If they don,t have the gene then what will pass on? There is only the garantee that there is nothing to pass on.Jovid":2bwm7r1y said:
vclavin
Well-known member
I understand that gene's can be "turned off" and thereby not express itself- Like the gene in humans for whole body hair coverage. Sometmes the gene is passed on and remains off and sometimes is turned off. That's why Monsanto - when manipulating genes in corn - set's the "gene switch" at "always on" that way they know their seed and it's offspring are permanently Roundup Ready.
In playing with genetics, you "set up" an animals genetic makeup for the next generation. Forgive the lack of better wording, breeding 2 "good" or even "great" animals together does not necessarily give you another. But stacking "good" and/or "great" will give you a better chance at it.
There's some really good reading on genetics on a thread - forget which one - sometimes there is a dominate trait that gets passed on. You notice it as the progeny "add" the parents genetics together instead of expressing them as half of each.
Wouldn't it seem plausible that DNA is the animals genetic profile and EPD's are the chance of them being passed on? (question)
Blessings
Valerie Clavin
In playing with genetics, you "set up" an animals genetic makeup for the next generation. Forgive the lack of better wording, breeding 2 "good" or even "great" animals together does not necessarily give you another. But stacking "good" and/or "great" will give you a better chance at it.
There's some really good reading on genetics on a thread - forget which one - sometimes there is a dominate trait that gets passed on. You notice it as the progeny "add" the parents genetics together instead of expressing them as half of each.
Wouldn't it seem plausible that DNA is the animals genetic profile and EPD's are the chance of them being passed on? (question)
Blessings
Valerie Clavin
Avalon
Well-known member
novatech":1nx8b0z5 said:
Ditto. Live evaluation and actual data can never be replaced. However, EPD's, Ultrasound, and DNA testing give us more information to make informed decisions with. Those who are supplying seed stock must utilyze as many of these tools as possible. Some academics seem to think that DNA data will become more prominant especially in regards to carcass information in the future. Being one of the low guys on the totem pole, I will wait, watch and utylize what others have to offer.
vclavin
Well-known member
Why not? Ollie, then what is the animals genetic profile? How would I get it?ollie?":6wosy6d2 said:
Blessings
Valerie Clavin
vclavin
Well-known member
Avalon,Avalon":2md0ueti said:
When using live evaluation and actual data - I assume you mean actual carcass and the other measurements we all turn in - what way, other than EPD's, would we use to take the "environment" out of the picture? Since environment can effect outcomes.
Blessings
Valerie Clavin
If it's a single gene there is a 50:50 chance it will be passed on. Problem is that other then a couple of dominant/recessive genes (polled/horned, black/other) the genes work in combinations. If the other half of the mating doesn;t carry a specific gene the odds are 25:75 that the offspring will.vclavin":frz1mnio said:
novatech
Well-known member
By looking at the list on this site,
http://kinne.net/heritcht.htm
it seems that a lot could be accomplished in a short time if we had the information.
There is never any guarantee of the outcome but by the use of carcass evaluations, EPDs, and DNA test results we could improve the odds a great deal.
http://kinne.net/heritcht.htm
it seems that a lot could be accomplished in a short time if we had the information.
There is never any guarantee of the outcome but by the use of carcass evaluations, EPDs, and DNA test results we could improve the odds a great deal.
hillsdown
Well-known member
I believe there will always be a need for all aspects and resources to get the best animals. We did it with dairy all of the time , you had your DHI records and you had your Classifying records , when you choose a bull to use as an AI sire you choose what traits he could improve on your animals and if he was weak on a few aspects you needed to choose an animal that was extremely strong in those areas.
Beef is the same way, you need to utilise everything that is available to you, but simply choosing on EPDS or DNA testing alone without going by the actual live evaluation, is not good enough. You need to utilize them all .
Beef is the same way, you need to utilise everything that is available to you, but simply choosing on EPDS or DNA testing alone without going by the actual live evaluation, is not good enough. You need to utilize them all .
novatech
Well-known member
Even though I utilize most everything I can get my hands on as far as information I find it very difficult in getting payed for my efforts. I have been fairly successful. Being a small seed stock producer I doubt I will ever get rich ( to old to build a reputation) but there is great reward for me just having the knowledge that I am breeding better than the next guy.
That in the short run my be all there is and it's worth it. In the long run you will probably build a clientele that apreciates your animals and comes back year after year. It may not put as much in the bank as some of the big names, but as you get old persoanl satisfaction plays a bigger roll then the size of the bank accountnovatech":2xx6pcl2 said:
mosaic's can interfere with ratio's.
i don't think any DNA analysis company out there will give you the allele information which is why i won't be using them anymore.
i don't care how many markers there are, if i don't have the knowledge who is homozygous for every allele, how do i know which animal with the same % score by anyone's system to mate? A: you don't.
say you had four sire representing all of the genetic basis for marbling but no bull had any other bull's markers. you sire some groups and test offspring and you fix the % in each sire group. how do you know which group to cross to who. you would have to rotate all the bulls through each group and test and test and test and you still wouldn't have a minimal crossing path to minimize generations or testing costs, all the while, giving up ownership of the profile of your cattle.
even if there is 1000 markers, i still don't see the hassle of putting them in an excel spreadsheet and tracking the markers rather than some score. not only that, you can't prioritize on the markers that have supposedly higher % contribution.
to me, the current marker situation is fatally flawed.
i don't think any DNA analysis company out there will give you the allele information which is why i won't be using them anymore.
i don't care how many markers there are, if i don't have the knowledge who is homozygous for every allele, how do i know which animal with the same % score by anyone's system to mate? A: you don't.
say you had four sire representing all of the genetic basis for marbling but no bull had any other bull's markers. you sire some groups and test offspring and you fix the % in each sire group. how do you know which group to cross to who. you would have to rotate all the bulls through each group and test and test and test and you still wouldn't have a minimal crossing path to minimize generations or testing costs, all the while, giving up ownership of the profile of your cattle.
even if there is 1000 markers, i still don't see the hassle of putting them in an excel spreadsheet and tracking the markers rather than some score. not only that, you can't prioritize on the markers that have supposedly higher % contribution.
to me, the current marker situation is fatally flawed.
