DNA Testing - your thoughts Please.

[vclavin]

I haven't seen any threads about the new DNA tests for Angus. I did have some done at MMI lab on the 2 herd sires and the data was backwards of the EPD's - IMF, RE,tenderness. Actually , it was the IMF that surprised me. Offspring will not be yearlings till spring to see how they pass it on or not.

Have any of you had these tests done? Or know of anyone that has? Your thoughts on the DNA versus EPD's or in conjunction with EPD's.

Blessings
Valerie Clavin

 

[WichitaLineMan]

My Thoughts:

"A fool and his money will soon be parted"

 

[vclavin]

Thanks, I guess that means you use cheap bulls? :lol:
Blessings
Valerie Clavin

 

[vclavin]

Thanks, I guess that means you use cheap bulls? :lol:
Blessings
Valerie Clavin

 

[RD-Sam]

I have had several done, and the Genestar markers don't really match the new MVP's, nor do any of them match the EPD's. My plan is to just use the EPD's and ultrasound to make decisions from here on out, at least until the accuracy on genetic testing gets a lot better.

 

[Frankie]

I haven't seen any threads about the new DNA tests for Angus. I did have some done at MMI lab on the 2 herd sires and the data was backwards of the EPD's - IMF, RE,tenderness. Actually , it was the IMF that surprised me. Offspring will not be yearlings till spring to see how they pass it on or not.

Have any of you had these tests done? Or know of anyone that has? Your thoughts on the DNA versus EPD's or in conjunction with EPD's.

Blessings
Valerie Clavin

Our bull test station has been been collecting Igenity DNA for a couple of years and, so far, there's been no major surprise in the results we've received. The Angus Assn is working to incorporate it into EPDs. I'm not going to make any major changes in sire selection based on DNA testing, but more info is always good.

 

[vclavin]

Thanks guys,
ALthough I may go ahead and have the herd sires tested just to see if Igenity is close to MMi results. Although I understand there a few more bits of info we will be getting from Igenity.
I do believe the EPD's are still better, at least for now. Just because an animal has the genetics it doesn't mean he'll use them .
Blessings
Valerie Clavin

 

[novaman]

Thanks guys,
ALthough I may go ahead and have the herd sires tested just to see if Igenity is close to MMi results. Although I understand there a few more bits of info we will be getting from Igenity.
I do believe the EPD's are still better, at least for now. Just because an animal has the genetics it doesn't mean he'll use them .
Blessings
Valerie Clavin

DNA testing isn't meant to be a substitute for EPD's. The testing is meant to enhance the accuracies of the EPD's. Of course the system isn't perfect but you have to keep in mind that DNA testing hasn't been used for that long. There are a lot of kinks to work out and we are learning more and more about the results we are getting back. I started using genomic tested young sires early this year so I won't get a good feel for what resulted from these mating for close to 2 years when the heifers are coming in fresh. From what I've heard and read, the early results from the first genomic tested matings is that there is a consistently higher correlation to what the DNA tests were showing.

 

[vclavin]

DNA testing isn't meant to be a substitute for EPD's. The testing is meant to enhance the accuracies of the EPD's. Of course the system isn't perfect but you have to keep in mind that DNA testing hasn't been used for that long. There are a lot of kinks to work out and we are learning more and more about the results we are getting back. I started using genomic tested young sires early this year so I won't get a good feel for what resulted from these mating for close to 2 years when the heifers are coming in fresh. From what I've heard and read, the early results from the first genomic tested matings is that there is a consistently higher correlation to what the DNA tests were showing.

Why not DNA test a few of the heifers to see ahead of time?
Blessings
Valerie Clavin

 

[robert]

Today we have the tools to go backwards at a greater rate than ever before.

I'm curious, how much does a couple of dna profiles on a couple of head really tell you? If you're serious about it why not profile the whole herd and get at least a picture of potentially where your baseline is? The one plus about the Igenity deal is that the breeder through the AAA still own the data, unlike the Pfizer deal where the only people who really know what the breed is doing out there in the big dna picture is Pfizer, who I'm sure would quite like to eat all our lunches for us if we give them the tools to do it.

 

[RD-Sam]

Today we have the tools to go backwards at a greater rate than ever before.

I'm curious, how much does a couple of dna profiles on a couple of head really tell you? If you're serious about it why not profile the whole herd and get at least a picture of potentially where your baseline is? The one plus about the Igenity deal is that the breeder through the AAA still own the data, unlike the Pfizer deal where the only people who really know what the breed is doing out there in the big dna picture is Pfizer, who I'm sure would quite like to eat all our lunches for us if we give them the tools to do it.

I guess the final answer is to have a carcass graded and see what it actually is, that is the only true evaluation. If we get Igenity factored in on the EPD's for free, why test and pay for it, just use the EPD value? Accuracies are just way too low to have any value at this point, that's my opinion though.

By the way Val, have you looked at the Performance Pedigrees on the sires you use, or plan to use? Those can be very interesting!

 

[novatech]

I can remember when people said some of the same things about EPS's. Some people still do.
Personally I like to have every tool in my box that I can get my hands on.

What they are learning about DNA is growing at a rapid pace. Even if we are not using it now I beleive we will be in the not so distant future.

 

[robert]

Even if we are not using it now I beleive we will be in the not so distant future.

who will use it? who will control it? will we be using it under our terms or under pfizer/igenity/whoevers terms?

 

[Herefords.US]

Val, here is a link to an older thread and an interesting article about DNA testing.

http://www.cattletoday.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=60656&start=0&st=0&sk=t&sd=a&hilit=dna

As I stated in that thread, I believe that DNA testing will eventually either completely replace or greatly enhance the accuracy of EPDs as selection tools, but there's still a LOT of research to do before you can hang your hat on the results where multiple "markers" can affect a trait.

Article: http://beefmagazine.com/genetics/selection-tools/1001-dna-test-future/index.html#

George

 

[dun]

For DNA to replace EPDs every cow, bull and probably calf born to registerable parents would have to be tested. Ain;t gonna happen in my lifetime ( couple of years at best) or my kids or grandkids lifetime either. DNA can assist in EPDs but they won;t replace it.
Of course I'm a great predictor since I said that PCs wouldn;t catch on and that cell phones were just a pipe dream.

 

[Herefords.US]

For DNA to replace EPDs every cow, bull and probably calf born to registerable parents would have to be tested. Ain;t gonna happen in my lifetime ( couple of years at best) or my kids or grandkids lifetime either. DNA can assist in EPDs but they won;t replace it.
Of course I'm a great predictor since I said that PCs wouldn;t catch on and that cell phones were just a pipe dream.

I think you're as wrong here as you were about the PCs, dun. The cost of testing is going to become cheaper and easier (you probably eventually will have a "home test" kit) and the relative information you can get from them will continue to become broader in scope and more accurate.

If a breeder can obtain a definitive answer of what he/she has, genetically, in a calf shortly after birth, at a cost of say $5 a head or less, you can bet almost every one will be using it. Of course you will probably be able to take it one step further and test embryos, then only implant the ones you want - based on their DNA test results.

It may not happen in your remaining lifetime - or mine - but younguns like "blackcowz" and "CPL" will see it before they hit middle age.

I kinda hate to see it coming because it's going to take a lot of the FUN out of cattle breeding.

George

 

[vclavin]

Amen George! Won't be fun anymore!
Blessings
Valerie Clavin

 

[vclavin]

Val, here is a link to an older thread and an interesting article about DNA testing.

http://www.cattletoday.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=60656&start=0&st=0&sk=t&sd=a&hilit=dna

As I stated in that thread, I believe that DNA testing will eventually either completely replace or greatly enhance the accuracy of EPDs as selection tools, but there's still a LOT of research to do before you can hang your hat on the results where multiple "markers" can affect a trait.

Article: http://beefmagazine.com/genetics/selection-tools/1001-dna-test-future/index.html#

George

Thanks George,
I'll do some reading this evening. I'm always ready to learn more.
Blessings
Valerie Clavin

 

[RD-Sam]

For DNA to replace EPDs every cow, bull and probably calf born to registerable parents would have to be tested. Ain;t gonna happen in my lifetime ( couple of years at best) or my kids or grandkids lifetime either. DNA can assist in EPDs but they won;t replace it.
Of course I'm a great predictor since I said that PCs wouldn;t catch on and that cell phones were just a pipe dream.

I think you're as wrong here as you were about the PCs, dun. The cost of testing is going to become cheaper and easier (you probably eventually will have a "home test" kit) and the relative information you can get from them will continue to become broader in scope and more accurate.

If a breeder can obtain a definitive answer of what he/she has, genetically, in a calf shortly after birth, at a cost of say $5 a head or less, you can bet almost every one will be using it. Of course you will probably be able to take it one step further and test embryos, then only implant the ones you want - based on their DNA test results.

It may not happen in your remaining lifetime - or mine - but younguns like "blackcowz" and "CPL" will see it before they hit middle age.

I kinda hate to see it coming because it's going to take a lot of the FUN out of cattle breeding.

George

That's funny, the price keeps going up, not down. And they want the animal tested to be at least a year of age when tested. The only time I usually see a price go down on something is when the product manufacturing was shipped to China. I can see what a mess that could turn out to be, DNA testing in China. :roll:

 

[novatech]

I kinda hate to see it coming because it's going to take a lot of the FUN out of cattle breeding.

George

Can you imagine a catalogue where you design your own cow. Some company slaps the genes together and sends you the semen and an egg. Stick it in a cow and presto the calf you designed.
:roll: