Dairy cow Udder question

[Gwenhwyfar]

Thinking about buying a Holstein or Jersey as foster mum for raising poddys but since researching into this I have come across the phrase "Broken Down Ligament Support" referring to the cow only having 3 or maybe less working quarters ?
Can anybody please explain what this means and when looking to purchase a cow what visually if anything I would see in a cow that has this problem.
I know what to look for as in a smaller hardened quarter in a cow with mastitis :?:
Looking forward to your reply's,Thankyou.

 

[bigbull338]

what you are talking about is swing baggs or blown baggs.to avid that an 3 teaters.you need to buy a 1st through 3rd calf cow.with a nice bagg.aviding 3 teaters.

 

[shutskytj]

Broken down ligaments mean that the bag is hanging and swinging down below the hocks hard for a calf to get under and reach.

 

[BC]

The ligament support is the median suspensory ligament that attaches at the top of the rear udder attachement and supports the udder. It is noticeable from the rear as it appears to halve the udder.

When looking for a dairy cow to make into a nurse cow, don't overlook the 3 teated cows. You can buy them cheaper and I once had a Brahman cross cow with one dead quarter that raised the heaviest calf every year I owned her.

 

[randiliana]

When looking for a dairy cow to make into a nurse cow, don't overlook the 3 teated cows. You can buy them cheaper and I once had a Brahman cross cow with one dead quarter that raised the heaviest calf every year I owned her.

We have a little 950 lb cow here with 3 quarters. We talked to the vet about that and what he said was that a cow can produce 75 - 80% of her milk on 3 quarters. This cow will raise a 550 - 600 lb calf every year and on only 3 quarters. So, I agree, a 3 teater dairy cow should be just fine for a nurse cow.

 

[milkmaid]

Couple of udders...picture is worth a thousand words, so they say.

Here's a cow that had SEVERE edema at calving and it never went away. Been about 6 months since she calved. This one would not make a good nurse cow. And this is usually what folks think of when they're talking about a damaged ligament - chances are that udder is not going to recover when she's dried off.

This one's udder is better - it's holding up well and it isn't damaged, but she wouldn't be a good nurse cow for 2 reasons. One, she milks waaaay too much to put "a calf or two" on and turn them out to pasture. Second, the udder's too big and the teats are too short; some calves can be really stupid and it is much, much easier to graft a calf onto a smaller udder.

Here's a cow with a really tiny udder. She's about as ugly as a cow can get, but it's a nice udder for feeding calves. You might think it's too small - but it's not. She milks enough for two now and she'll milk enough for more than four when she's fresh. (BTW, this is one of my nurse cows and she is raising two huge calves.)

Here's another cow with a nice udder. She was just milked out so she doesn't look like much, but she's milking about 5 gallons/day. (Calf needs 1 gallon/day, so she can feed 4 comfortably. I always put one less on than they can handle.)

Another nice udder. Fresh cow. And this is another of my nurse cows (currently running with the milking herd though).

Hope that helps...all the above are four quarter cows. I don't seem to have any good pics of three quarter cows in my collection.

 

[Gale Seddon]

Milkmaid, great to have the photos and explanations...really helpful!!! You are something!

What are the black straps on their legs for? Some sort of ID?

 

[milkmaid]

:lol: Thanks. :) Black bands are cows with chronic mastitis. Just a reminder to dip their milker in iodine solution after they're done so the next cow doesn't get infected. (BTW, can't tell they have mastitis by looking at them, can you?)

The picture of the cow second-from-bottom is my newest nurse cow - she's a temporary loan from my boss in exchange for the fresh cow (#311) in the last picture. My 311 was milking enough for 8-10 calves and that was just a mess. Too much milk, "only" four calves on her, all had scours...I traded her for a cow that milked about half that and sent 311 to the dairy. LOL. Things are much better now. ;-)

 

[msscamp]

At the risk of sounding really dumb, when you say chronic mastitis does that mean that the mastitis cannot be cleared up? I don't know the first thing about mastitis, but honestly thought that it could always be treated and cleared up.

 

[born2run]

Chronic mastitis refers to a case that was never really treated and brought under control. Overall the cow may appear healthy, occasional chunks in the milk perhaps, but most of the time the only sign of infection is a high SCC. Repeated flareups of acute mastitis are another sign of a chronic case.

How about this pic of another 3 quartered cow?

You're right..."most" of the time it can be brought under control. However some of the time the only "cure" is killing the quarter or culling the cow altogether.

 

[milkmaid]

At the risk of sounding really dumb, when you say chronic mastitis does that mean that the mastitis cannot be cleared up? I don't know the first thing about mastitis, but honestly thought that it could always be treated and cleared up.

Chronic usually refers to a case that's persisted longer than a month or two. Some cases clear up on their own. Some get acute - severe - and the quarter is "killed" by the infection, like the pic born2run posted, and some just persist for months, or lactations, and are just a few flakes when the cow is first stripped, and then the milk looks good. Sometimes the infection turns subclinical - meaning it is still there, but it isn't visible at stripping.

If it goes on like that for months then the chance of being able to completely clear up the infection is low, due to scar tissue. At least until dry off. ;-)

 

[msscamp]

Thanks born2run and milkmaid, I appreciate the info! :)

 

[born2run]

No problem :D

 

[Gwenhwyfar]

And just when I thought I knew what I was doing :stop:

Thankyou :) to everyone who replied to my original post, "Milkmaid" your photo's saved me alot of money and stress the first photo posted looks just like the cow someone was trying to sell me knowing what I was intending to do with the cow !
My train of thinking now would be to possibly look more so at a Jersey (not as much milk production) purchased direct from a dairy who can tell me cows history ?

 

[milkmaid]

Gwen- I would always purchase a nurse cow direct from a dairy or from someone who has used the cow as a nurse cow. Always. I'll copy something I wrote in another post recently...

Dairy cows going through the auction with the "cull cows" at slaughter price have one or more of the following things wrong with them...(in probable order of frequency)

1) open and/or infertile
2) not producing enough milk
3) mastitis, usually chronic
4) lame
5) "something else" - Johnes, hernias, past prolapse, bad attitude, etc, etc

I sat at the auction a few weeks back and watched cows going through. I recognized a few of them, believe it or not. Four cows from a neighboring dairy; had talked with the fellow not long before and knew why they were there as he'd pointed them out to me as they went through the milking barn. One was a first lactation cow - been serviced a dozen times and wouldn't take. One had a high SCC and mastitis. Then I saw a cow go through that I saw at my vet's clinic about 3 weeks prior; she'd been there for surgery to correct a displaced abomasum. Was it obvious to the folks around me?...I think not.

There was a "know-it-all" fellow behind me that needed a serious class in dairy cows - he had to comment on every cow that walked through the ring and I knew for sure that he was wrong on a significant portion of them, because I knew the cows. He missed the cow with the DA completely - pegged her as one with a "high SCC" - oh the willpower necessary to keep from laughing. :lol: ;-)

and

Also one mans cull could be another mans best cow.

I won't argue with that. That's where all my personal nurse cows came from. Open too many times, not producing enough milk, foot rot, etc.........BUT, I did not and would not risk picking up one of those cull cows from the auction and turning her into a nurse cow. I knew what was wrong with every last one of my cows before I brought them home, and they came straight from the dairy to my barn.

I remember my boss sent a cow to the auction a few years ago - cow had a hernia through the abdominal wall that developed overnight. Cow quit eating and drinking and obviously wasn't going to live long. Coincidently, by the time she went through the auction, she hadn't eaten in long enough that the hernia was no longer visible. The fellows in there buying up cull cows (for slaughter) paid $600 for her. She looked perfectly fine - but you can't tell anything by looking!

Boss is sending a cow to the auction tomorrow - she's 2nd lactation holstein cow about 1300lbs, so not real big. Decent udder on her, looking at her she looks alright. She isn't spooky - BUT, she only milks out of two of those quarters and both have subclinical mastitis. She's open, occasionally lame in the right front with a chronic abcess, and mean as a snake. I've been kicked by her in the barn and in the yard several times. See why I wouldn't dare pick up a cow from the auction? :lol:

Get them from direct from a dairy or someone who has used the cow as a nurse cow. (The latter might be better if you don't know what you're doing - culls from a dairy can be extremely uncooperative until they've learned what their new job is.) Holsteins can milk anywhere from a gallon a day to 14+ gallons a day (latter is rare). I personally like my cows in black and white...some folks prefer Jerseys. "Docile" and "lower milk production" are the two big things I've heard advocates of Jerseys claim. I don't have any experience with Jerseys, but I will say that you can find very docile Holsteins that give enough milk for 2-4 calves and have good udders. Don't cross off a holstein for a nurse cow just because you want something with lower milk production. Most of the culls leaving the dairy are going because they aren't producing enough, and some of them will do an excellent job raising calves.