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Culling cows

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BRYANT

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I know some on here pride themselves on how hard they cull the herd, and each person has their way of doing things. BUT I have about decided that as long as a cow will wean off a good calf and she is not to crazy, and they have to be pretty crazy and wild for me to cull for that reason but I do have a place that will hold some bad ones, I think with the kill price for cows as low as it is right now, as long as the will raise a calf you are money ahead to keep them till they die or cant raise a calf. My thinking is a 450 - 500 lb. calf will bring more than a killer cow will a lot of the time depending on how big the cow is. I know you can replace them with a younger cow but these old proven cows you know what you got and most of the time they will calve with no problems and raise it. Am I totally crazy and have lost it or can anyone see it the way I am starting to see it ????
 

kentuckyguy

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I understand what you are saying. Makes it hard to cull when you know they are only gonna bring 0.55-0.60 a pound
 

ddd75

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i just got rid of a few good momma's that raise excellent calves.. but the tits were too big and they lost the calves this year. Hard to cull such good cows.. but 700 bucks each after they raised me calves for 10 years and they were about 6 when I got them.. so .. I think thats pretty damn good
 
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BRYANT

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ddd75":1xc1uqbv said:
i just got rid of a few good momma's that raise excellent calves.. but the tits were too big and they lost the calves this year. Hard to cull such good cows.. but 700 bucks each after they raised me calves for 10 years and they were about 6 when I got them.. so .. I think thats pretty be nice good
Them would fall in the list of not being able to wean off a good calf so I would say cull them.
I got a couple that still raise a good calf but has 1 tit that is big and got another cow that is 3/4 bag if I sold them the killer buyers would rob me just because they know they can so why not keep them and let them raise a calf that will be worth more than them , makes no cense to sell them for what they would bring right now because all three of them just wean off a big calf that brought more than they would, why not just let them do it again ?
I am interested in what people think about this idea, but I am fixing to go out of town for the week end so wont get to read them till after I get back
 

elkwc

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It is something we've been discussing and tossing around. Will sort this weekend and know for certain. Somewhere between 20-30 cows left that are at least 14 years old and some older. A few have to go. They are fat now but last winter was hard on them. Put some on wheat last winter with the intention of selling but the cows calved so will wean them. Judy said Sunday at the price they will bring a calf will bring as much or more. Everyone of these cows had a calf this year. So can't cull the ones that didn't calve. Have already decided the 3-4 Brangus cross cows that look 9 years old and stay in good condition all year will stay. After this weekend we will know better how many we will keep. In the end it is up to her. Normally you would sell them as we have been retaining heifers but with the current prices it makes you wonder. I took a pic of a cow that feel maybe 16 last weekend with a very nice early March heifer on her side and she is in good condition. Makes it a hard decision.
 

True Grit Farms

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From my limited experience if your not pasture blind a cow will cull itself. Picking and choosing is a good problem to have.
 

elkwc

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We sorted last weekend and have 21 head of the 14 y/o and older cows. After much discussion with her, her son and other cattlemen decided we will keep everything until October. With the recent rains and the wheat being drilled feel there maybe some demand for the older bred cows then. Have 8 dry’s that we weaned their calves a while back and all are bred and will calve by Jan I think. The other cows we will wait until we wean. Will keep all the older cows together so we can watch them and if we decide to sell any they will be together. The issue is our numbers are up due to retaining heifer the last several years. But hard to sell a cow that breeds back and raises a big calf.
 

Stocker Steve

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BRYANT":ric4h4yk said:
have lost it or can anyone see it the way I am starting to see it ????

Some also pride themselves on hold long they retain an aged late calving outlaws. :cowboy:

The thing you missed in your post is comparing saleable bred cows (not open culls) to the cost of replacements. We all keep some too long, but ideally you sell cows before they are only good for burger. YTD my culls averaged $990 at the sales barn.

I have a couple Grandma cows I hang onto hoping for a heifer, but they are maybe 10% of the potential cull group.
 
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BRYANT

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Stocker Steve":3as9332b said:
BRYANT":3as9332b said:
have lost it or can anyone see it the way I am starting to see it ????

Some also pride themselves on hold long they retain an aged late calving outlaws. :cowboy:

The thing you missed in your post is comparing saleable bred cows (not open culls) to the cost of replacements. We all keep some too long, but ideally you sell cows before they are only good for burger. YTD my culls averaged $990 at the sales barn.

I have a couple Grandma cows I hang onto hoping for a heifer, but they are maybe 10% of the potential cull group.
No, I don't think I missed anything, I saw a large operation sell 2 to 3 pot loads a week for 3 weeks of GOOD LOOKING cross bred cows mostly 8 yrs. old and short mouth cows around 6 months bred + or - for 600.00 each, kept them and wean a 750.00 calf ?????
let see 360 x 600 = 216000.00
360 x 750 = 270000.00
and that was for cows not even wore out if they were killer culls you would have got even less. You walk a cow in the sale ring with one bad tit or one 1/4 not milking good but she can still give enough milk to raise a good calf and see what the kill buyers does to you. They have a thing going on with them some times and its buyer #1 you get this one buyer #2 you get the next one and you don't bid against me and I wont bid against you. Who takes the licking the seller does then its a 400.00 dollar cow that could have raised a 750.00 calf. I am not trying to tell people how to do it, do it any way that works for you but me if she can raise a good calf breed back like she should and not get just skin and bones doing it she aint no cull, she's still a money maker 4 yrs. old or 24 yrs. old does not really matter as long as she can wean a calf that brings more than she will she is making money.
 
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BRYANT

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I over looked the 990.00 sell price you are selling for. I bet them are not 1 and done cows if you have pasture why sell a good cow for 1000.0 when she can produce 1500 .00 in two years and probably be good for more than that. I know you can replace with a heifer that lord only knows what you will have, where these old cows you know, that's why they got to stay around . I can kind of see your side but at the price cows are at right now I see my side better.
 

bird dog

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Well Bryant, going into this time of year with a shortage of hay in a lot of places, I'm sure you can have all of them you want. The one and done's work if you have pasture, hay, silage or another cheap feed source. Most folks don't, and thats why they are selling. They will only get cheaper going into winter.
Those long breds selling just before Christmas are usually the best deal.
 

JMJ Farms

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Another thing worth noting..... hypothetically speaking

$600 as a cull cow now
$750 for her calf if she raises one
$400 to keep her until she weans calf
$600 as a cull cow after weaning calf

$600 today

$350 6-12 months from now (+) $600
=$950 next year.

Or

$600 now, apply to heavy bred cow @ $1000, sell pair in 6-8 months $750 for calf and $750 for what should be a short bred cow. $1500 (-) $400 to keep the cow for this period (=) $1100.

I do understand this is hypothetical and does not always work this way. But it is something to think about.
 

Stocker Steve

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BRYANT":1x48jkoy said:
I over looked the 990.00 sell price you are selling for. I bet them are not 1 and done cows if you have pasture why sell a good cow for 1000.0 when she can produce 1500 .00 in two years and probably be good for more than that.

Because you are a good marketer -- looking at the difference between the sell and the buy - - buying back am animal that will make you more money, is worth more, or both. I cull on two or more strikes unless I really really like her heifers:

1) One reason is seasonal pricing--sell when prices are higher in early summer and buy back when they are low in fall.
2) One reason is feed consumption - - sell big uns and buy back more moderate sized.
3) One is longivity - - sell short term cows as pairs, and buy back younger cows that should last longer. Bud Williams used to use a value of $100 per calf.
4) One reason is calving window - - sell late calvers and buy back cows that will calve earlier and wean bigger calves on less feed.

If you keep a cow long enough, she may become worth more to you than anyone else, but there were probably points in the past where a trade would have been to your advantage. I have a couple cows every fall that I have kept too long.
 
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BRYANT

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Stocker Steve":5u98x6or said:
BRYANT":5u98x6or said:
I over looked the 990.00 sell price you are selling for. I bet them are not 1 and done cows if you have pasture why sell a good cow for 1000.0 when she can produce 1500 .00 in two years and probably be good for more than that.

Because you are a good marketer -- looking at the difference between the sell and the buy - - buying back am animal that will make you more money, is worth more, or both. I cull on two or more strikes unless I really really like her heifers:

1) One reason is seasonal pricing--sell when prices are higher in early summer and buy back when they are low in fall.
2) One reason is feed consumption - - sell big uns and buy back more moderate sized.
3) One is longivity - - sell short term cows as pairs, and buy back younger cows that should last longer. Bud Williams used to use a value of $100 per calf.
4) One reason is calving window - - sell late calvers and buy back cows that will calve earlier and wean bigger calves on less feed.

If you keep a cow long enough, she may become worth more to you than anyone else, but there were probably points in the past where a trade would have been to your advantage. I have a couple cows every fall that I have kept too long.
sounds more like you are a trader than a cow/calf operation. The first post was talking about people that raise cattle keeping a cow from start to finish. but from what you are saying you are making a lot off of cattle like what I am talking about.
another example is what bird dog just said
bird dog":5u98x6or said:
Well Bryant, going into this time of year with a shortage of hay in a lot of places, I'm sure you can have all of them you want. The one and done's work if you have pasture, hay, silage or another cheap feed source. Most folks don't, and thats why they are selling. They will only get cheaper going into winter. Those long breds selling just before Christmas are usually the best deal.
read my post I said ''if you have pasture'' or hay then no reason to sell these older cows that still raise a good calf.
What made me start this is the cow I just sold that I bought as some ones cull that the cattle sell called a 7yr. old , was probably older than that, I paid around 700.00 +/- for her bred raised a total of 7 calves before she stopped breeding. she would calve every 11-12 months. and she aint the fist cull I have did that with. Mater of fact I like it when people ''CULL HARD'' because I am in the process of changing what I do and just start running these culls till they are done. This year I have sold some nice young heifers for way more than it will cost me to buy some ones culls. Yes there comes a time when a cow is done and needs to be culled but some cull them when there is still a lot of money to be made off them.
 

True Grit Farms

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BRYANT":smfxs5qi said:
Stocker Steve":smfxs5qi said:
BRYANT":smfxs5qi said:
I over looked the 990.00 sell price you are selling for. I bet them are not 1 and done cows if you have pasture why sell a good cow for 1000.0 when she can produce 1500 .00 in two years and probably be good for more than that.

Because you are a good marketer -- looking at the difference between the sell and the buy - - buying back am animal that will make you more money, is worth more, or both. I cull on two or more strikes unless I really really like her heifers:

1) One reason is seasonal pricing--sell when prices are higher in early summer and buy back when they are low in fall.
2) One reason is feed consumption - - sell big uns and buy back more moderate sized.
3) One is longivity - - sell short term cows as pairs, and buy back younger cows that should last longer. Bud Williams used to use a value of $100 per calf.
4) One reason is calving window - - sell late calvers and buy back cows that will calve earlier and wean bigger calves on less feed.

If you keep a cow long enough, she may become worth more to you than anyone else, but there were probably points in the past where a trade would have been to your advantage. I have a couple cows every fall that I have kept too long.
sounds more like you are a trader than a cow/calf operation. The first post was talking about people that raise cattle keeping a cow from start to finish. but from what you are saying you are making a lot off of cattle like what I am talking about.
another example is what bird dog just said
bird dog":smfxs5qi said:
Well Bryant, going into this time of year with a shortage of hay in a lot of places, I'm sure you can have all of them you want. The one and done's work if you have pasture, hay, silage or another cheap feed source. Most folks don't, and thats why they are selling. They will only get cheaper going into winter. Those long breds selling just before Christmas are usually the best deal.
read my post I said ''if you have pasture'' or hay then no reason to sell these older cows that still raise a good calf.
What made me start this is the cow I just sold that I bought as some ones cull that the cattle sell called a 7yr. old , was probably older than that, I paid around 700.00 +/- for her bred raised a total of 7 calves before she stopped breeding. she would calve every 11-12 months. and she aint the fist cull I have did that with. Mater of fact I like it when people ''CULL HARD'' because I am in the process of changing what I do and just start running these culls till they are done. This year I have sold some nice young heifers for way more than it will cost me to buy some ones culls. Yes there comes a time when a cow is done and needs to be culled but some cull them when there is still a lot of money to be made off them.
Why not just roll them every year? I buy bred cows and roll the majority every year besides the one's I feel are the best. When you don't know the sire of the calf it's a crap shoot, some you win some you don't. I usually end up keeping about 20% of what I buy to replace older cows that are wearing out but still have good value.
 
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BRYANT

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True Grit Farms":1icu43z6 said:
Why not just roll them every year? I buy bred cows and roll the majority every year besides the one's I feel are the best. When you don't know the sire of the calf it's a crap shoot, some you win some you don't. I usually end up keeping about 20% of what I buy to replace older cows that are wearing out but still have good value.
I think there is money to be made doing that and its kind of what I am planning to start doing, because I live so far away from my place. there is such a price difference now between what a 450 calf and a cow till I cant see raising a heifer and making a cow out of her and not keeping her till she is wore out ???? market may be different in different places ????
Its kind of like a PU some people trade them in when there is a good trade- value others drive them till they aint worth much. me when I sell it , its about time for the scrap yard. This is a big subject and a lot of factors go into it. I also look at trading cattle as a big difference than a cow/calf operation. There is a big investment and a lot of risk in getting that first calf on the ground. it has been interesting to see how different people operate in the different markets.
 

TCRanch

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BRYANT":3sm8hsbn said:
Its kind of like a PU some people trade them in when there is a good trade- value others drive them till they aint worth much. me when I sell it , its about time for the scrap yard. This is a big subject and a lot of factors go into it. I also look at trading cattle as a big difference than a cow/calf operation. There is a big investment and a lot of risk in getting that first calf on the ground. it has been interesting to see how different people operate in the different markets.
[/quote]
Great analogy, Bryant!

With my old girls, I typically have an incredibly long lineage of daughters/granddaughters even great-granddaughters. "Typically" because one of them has given me only bull calves: she's always one of the first to calve, her steer is usually the biggest one I wean, she/her calves are incredibly docile, love everything about her. Would it kill her to give me a heifer?!?!

That said, I'm culling hard this year and all the late ones (after Spring calving) are being sold as pairs when I wean in Oct as well as a couple of young cows that are good mamas but I just don't feel the love. Even selling a 7 year old I really like but treated for mastitis (she's fine now but not worth the risk).
 

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