Crabgrass?

[fnfarms1]

NE OK here. So last 2 yrs now we have planted Sudan grass. Dwarf BMR to be exact. Last year was little disappointing but decent considering it was year 2 of drought. This year was wet April-May and got a decent stand. However I noticed, as I was warned, growth isn't great due to Sudan doesn't like competition. That being said I'm looking into Red River Crabgrass. I'm getting mixed reviews on it. Something warm season besides the Bermuda that we have anyway. Something for tonnage, grazes well(abused hopefully not, but possibly), drought tolerance, perineal would be nice or reseed itself easily.
Next question will be a cool season that will mix well with fescue. My fescue gets rank and they don't eat it well. I'd love to graze earlier but it's a far pasture that I try to avoid, and once they go they stay until time to rotate back to Sudan/bermuda pastures.

 

[BFE]

I'm playing with Quick and Big crabgrass in a couple spots. Nothing to report yet. Any crabgrass I've ever seen will be back next year, it reseeds itself vigorously, multiple times if mowed.

Can you mow the fescue patch for hay? Can't speak for anywhere else, but fescue out competes everything here, anything else is a waste of time and money.

 

[cowman82]

if you have some open ground it will come up nicely. i love the stuff.. makes great tonnage and makes great hay.

 

[fnfarms1]

I'm playing with Quick and Big crabgrass in a couple spots. Nothing to report yet. Any crabgrass I've ever seen will be back next year, it reseeds itself vigorously, multiple times if mowed.

Can you mow the fescue patch for hay? Can't speak for anywhere else, but fescue out competes everything here, anything else is a waste of time and money.

I agree with fescue out competing. It grows up big and rank and getting them to eat is tough later. The way my pastures are, they don't go there until early May-4thJuly. I hate to mow it for hay because hay baling in April is rough if rains are any good. Plus even standing rank fescue is forage in rough year like our last 2, it's what they got. I'm not an anti fescue guy, actually like it. But I need more warm season in this pasture that can compete with the fescue.
What’s Quick and Big cost? This Red River is $250/50lbs, kind of pricey for me. That 50 should do 10 acres.

 

[BFE]

I agree with fescue out competing. It grows up big and rank and getting them to eat is tough later. The way my pastures are, they don't go there until early May-4thJuly. I hate to mow it for hay because hay baling in April is rough if rains are any good. Plus even standing rank fescue is forage in rough year like our last 2, it's what they got. I'm not an anti fescue guy, actually like it. But I need more warm season in this pasture that can compete with the fescue.
What's Quick and Big cost? This Red River is $250/50lbs, kind of pricey for me. That 50 should do 10 acres.

I don’t remember but it was high. I’m thinking higher than the red river.

 

[tsellars]

We had some clearing done this spring in and went back with red river. It seems to have done pretty well.

Broadcast on April 8th and this is what it looked like May 31st. I also fertilized according to what a soil test called for.

 

[cowman82]

I baled some crabgrass fields last year and it had a million seeds in it. if you have time to wait, maybe just buy some rolls of it and roll it out?

 

[fnfarms1]

I baled some crabgrass fields last year and it had a million seeds in it. if you have time to wait, maybe just buy some rolls of it and roll it out?

That is a good point I hadn’t considered. I wonder if the better varieties like red river are worth the extra cost? I need to buy a few bales anyway though so if I could find a few close, be worth trying.

We had some clearing done this spring in and went back with red river. It seems to have done pretty well.

Broadcast on April 8th and this is what it looked like May 31st. I also fertilized according to what a soil test called for.

Did you get much rain on it? Seems like decent growth on a cleared area. Ton of rain wouldn’t be as impressive as pretty dry spell I guess is what I’m asking.
But seems like you have had similar results to my neighbor. He’s considering going crabgrass instead of Sudan after what his did and doesn’t kill out as easy, toxicities etc.

 

[Mark Reynolds]

I agree with fescue out competing. It grows up big and rank and getting them to eat is tough later. The way my pastures are, they don't go there until early May-4thJuly. I hate to mow it for hay because hay baling in April is rough if rains are any good. Plus even standing rank fescue is forage in rough year like our last 2, it's what they got. I'm not an anti fescue guy, actually like it. But I need more warm season in this pasture that can compete with the fescue.
What's Quick and Big cost? This Red River is $250/50lbs, kind of pricey for me. That 50 should do 10 acres.

Unless you are able to remove the fescue that has accumulated up until the time that you are able to graze it, I don't believe there is a WSG that can penetrate/grow in conjunction with the tall fescue. I'm not getting a clear picture of what you have or are trying to do. Crabgrass will do well in conjunction with fescue provided that the fescue has been grazed to a suitable height that will allow the crabgrass to germinate and grow through the fescue stubble. What I'm picturing you trying to do here, and I don't think you mean this, is trying to overseed crabgrass in mature, 18-24 inch tall fescue and get the crabgrass to supplement/improve the palatability of the fescue. That isn't going to happen.

May 4th is too late to start trying to graze fescue. Is it possible to alter your operation to graze the fescue earlier?

 

[Warren Allison]

I still cringe when I see these post abut crabgrass. And Johnson Grass. I have spent 50 years and a small fortune, battling these scourges in my Bermuda fields. Crabgrass may be ok for pasture,( lots of other kinds of grass is better) but I will NOT put hay equipment in a field with that sh*t. Might as well strew 20' lengths of high tensile wire in your field. Let the tines of your mower, rake, baler, whatever, pick up one of those runners, and you will find out what I mean!

 

[Mark Reynolds]

I still cringe when I see these post abut crabgrass. And Johnson Grass. I have spent 50 years and a small fortune, battling these scourges in my Bermuda fields. Crabgrass may be ok for pasture,( lots of other kinds of grass is better) but I will NOT put hay equipment in a field with that sh*t. Might as well strew 20' lengths of high tensile wire in your field. Let the tines of your mower, rake, baler, whatever, pick up one of those runners, and you will find out what I mean!

I keep wondering about crabgrass and why someone would want to add it to a pasture with Bermuda, but I've seen it recommended. About the only thing I can figure is that the protein content is quite a bit higher in the crabgrass. Otherwise, why would you want an annual that has to re-establish itself each year when you have a perfectly good perennial? Note that I said pasture, and not hayfield.

 

[Shank3r]

This thread got me to do some reading on crabgrass, and from the information I've come across, it seems like it could be a viable grass for someone wanting to convert fallow land to a pasture, transition large bare spots of ground to something that can be grazed, or just for forage diversity so that there is always something for cattle to eat.

based on what I've read, I may prefer crabgrass over KR or Kleberg Bluestem.

 

[Logan52]

I just know the cattle relish it during June July and August. It comes up on its own on my better land that has been previously tilled, where I am trying to establish some other grass.
We have mostly cool season grasses and crabgrass is one of the few warm season grasses here that can stand close continuous grazing. White clover and lezpedeza thrive alongside it and make excellent pasture. These pastures maintain themselves for several years, only gradually giving way to a mixed stand of bluegrass and fescue.

 

[chaded]

Can you get ahold of some johnsongrass…. Lol.

 

[Warren Allison]

I keep wondering about crabgrass and why someone would want to add it to a pasture with Bermuda, but I've seen it recommended. About the only thing I can figure is that the protein content is quite a bit higher in the crabgrass. Otherwise, why would you want an annual that has to re-establish itself each year when you have a perfectly good perennial? Note that I said pasture, and not hayfield.

Doing a search, I have seen CP percentages for crabgrass ranging from 15% to 21%, for hay. Depending on variety, I have had Bermuda test from 17% to 20%. Neither beat Kudzu at 25-26%!

 

[Mark Reynolds]

Doing a search, I have seen CP percentages for crabgrass ranging from 15% to 21%, for hay. Depending on variety, I have had Bermuda test from 17% to 20%. Neither beat Kudzu at 25-26%!

I know that kudzu is to cows what spinach is to Popeye! Hearing the 15 for crabgrass is low compared to what I've heard, but I haven't looked closely and maybe I should. That is NICE Bermuda! Haven't heard of it being that high! Time to rethink a couple things maybe? What have you heard for Bahai?

 

[Mark Reynolds]

I just know the cattle relish it during June July and August. It comes up on its own on my better land that has been previously tilled, where I am trying to establish some other grass.
We have mostly cool season grasses and crabgrass is one of the few warm season grasses here that can stand close continuous grazing. White clover and lezpedeza thrive alongside it and make excellent pasture. These pastures maintain themselves for several years, only gradually giving way to a mixed stand of bluegrass and fescue.

Well, the crabgrass is an annual and will do anything and everything to continue to grow in its brief lifespan. However, I don't recommend close, continuous grazing on anything. Your production levels are severely compromised, whether you kill the grass or it 'survives', and survive is about all it will do if it can even do that.

 

[Warren Allison]

I know that kudzu is to cows what spinach is to Popeye! Hearing the 15 for crabgrass is low compared to what I've heard, but I haven't looked closely and maybe I should. That is NICE Bermuda! Haven't heard of it being that high! Time to rethink a couple things maybe? What have you heard for Bahai?

I don't know about Bahia, because I have never cut it for hay. We just test Bermuda because we sell it for horse hay. But ever since we started in the 70's, our Bermuda has always been around 18%..sometimes more and sometimes less. Does anyone know of anyone baling Bahia for hay?

 

[gman4691]

I don't know about Bahia, because I have never cut it for hay. We just test Bermuda because we sell it for horse hay. But ever since we started in the 70's, our Bermuda has always been around 18%..sometimes more and sometimes less. Does anyone know of anyone baling Bahia for hay?

When I was a kid, our hay pastures were Bermuda & Bahia mixed. Over the years, Dad pretty much killed off the Bahia in the hay pastures. It's still pretty prolific in a couple of grazing pastures…the cows will graze the leaves but not the stalks…mostly, they eat around it. I just mow it in the summer to give the Bermuda more sunlight and room to grow. I don't recall any problems baling and feeding the Bermuda-Bahia mix. But the Bahia will take over - especially in the dry season…it’s pretty drought resistant. In a dry summer, Bahia is growing when nothing else is.

 

[crossbreed]

Had a phone conversation with Mr. Dalrymple a couple years ago. We discussed his three versions of crab grass. When I told him I had some areas with severe sand burr growth he hinted don’t bother with crab grass as anything you use for the burrs would kill off the grass