Crabgrass?

In looking for a WSG annual (Warm Season Grass), crabgrass is without a doubt a good choice. It does/can reseed itself and is very high in protein, more so than most WSG from what I have been informed of, @anewcomer summarized my understanding of crabgrass quite well. As for perennial WSG, like @Warren Allison mentions for his Bermuda, his CP levels kinda disrupts my understanding, at least of his Bermuda. That value was crazy high based on my understanding. I was thinking/understanding 9-12 for Bermuda, maybe 14, with Bahia being a bit lower. His values at or near 20 are beautiful.
Bear in mind, I was talking about Bermuda raised for horse-quality hay. Fertilized and limed to specs after every cutting. Usually every 21-28 days. Bermuda in my pastures? I dunno. Have never tested it for protein content, and it doesn't get fertilized to UGA specs for hay. When you do a soil test on pasture ground, you tell them what all is in the field. what its for pasture, hay etc). I bet that 9-14 CP would be accurate, and not a bad value at all, for bermuda pasture.
 
A lot of good crabgrass in that.
Scott good me good tonight...again! You'd think I'd be more wary of stuff he tells me after that trick on me last week about 216 cows with the squirts! LOL But I called him tonight to go over plans for this weekend when we bring the other 130 Corr cows down. Where we gonna put them....how we gonna plant the bermuda/alfalfa, and when, in the other 3 row crop fields, etc. He told me that he had just ordered the seeds, and he had decided he was gonna sow crabgrass and Johnson grass in the old dove field! And plant sericea lespedeza in it as a legume!!! I just got real quiet...bit my tounge, etc. I mean, that land is his. I don't own half of it like I do the Kudzu Place across the road. Though he would tell you that was his and Warren's. But I don't want my name to be associated with Johnson Grass or crab grass in ANY way. Most cows don't find lespedeza very palatable due to the tannins. It will be the last plants they eat, if they have a choice. He couldn't hold it though, and busted out laughing at my stammering and stuttering a response. But later on, I got to thinking: "Corrientes aren't most cows! They might eat the heck out of it! And they do a good job of keeping the Johnson grass eaten down at the Kudzu place. And lespedeza produces a LOT of seeds...about 1000 per stem. And the seed is excellent for quail food plots." So, I am gonna wait a couple of days, then call his bluff! Tell him I got to thinking about it and he is right! " Let's do it!!" LOL

Seriously we wouldn't plant lespedeza there., It wouldn't take a year for it to be all over the other 400 acres!!!!
 
You are correct about the Sericea Lespedeza. Actually not bad feed for a while but once over mature and stemmy almost worth nothing. With the tannins you have to force them to eat it.
There are good lespedeza types out there with good seed production also but tough to keep it in grazing.
 
You are correct about the Sericea Lespedeza. Actually not bad feed for a while but once over mature and stemmy almost worth nothing. With the tannins you have to force them to eat it.
There are good lespedeza types out there with good seed production also but tough to keep it in grazing.
Yeah, he was just yanking my chain about the SL. Although, I was gonna let that old 50 acre dove field be another quail habitat for us... just put 30-40 Corss over there when we needed to. If I hadn't pulled this buying-400 - more - Corrs stunt, that SL would actually be good for that. Scott sowed it in rye, wheat, oats, and barley late fall after the last dove season. And the millet we had for the dove field came back, and is about to seed again. The oats/wheat/barley/rye/ seeded again, and might do it again later on, but I doubt it. Scott is actually thinking seriously about what @Mark Reynolds suggested: Planting perennial peanut for a legume in the Bermuda or bahia pastures. I think we are gonna need all the pasture we can get. so we might plow up and re-do the old dove field in better pasture grass.

Mike wants to send us 8 bulls to use. He has 12 he sends to the 600 producers he has in Fla and LA, and wants us to take those 8. My last Corrs and the 54 I got from him to start with, all finished calving in May. We pulled the bulls about 3 weeks ago when Scott's brother traded me for those 4 Brahma cows, but really, I would have left them in there til end of July. So I am putting 4 in the Kudzu place this weekend. Will leave them a month, then pull them and put them where ever we decide to keep them and the other 4. No more calves til Sept-Oct so won't really need them til Nov-Dec. Probably gonna have to keep them in that pasture by Mattie's house where I have those 12 Brahmas, and move them over to the Kudzu place. Out of my 176 Kudzu Corrs, I am selling them all except my 72 blacks, as they wean each month. I will sell then too, if Wagyu guy wants them for $2k each. Not bad for him, really..... they gonna have $1500- $1600 Brangus or black Sim calves ( at today's prices) starting in October. That's gonna leave us with 470 or so Corr mommas, and ....now I found out.... eight $10-$15k bulls! And my 12 Brahmas. And we will have just about 680 acres total for 490+ head. I wish now that this year, we could have just done the bermuda/Bulldog alfalfa on those 400 crop acres after they are harvested, and waited a whole year for them to get establish good, then bought 400 cows! Of course, 400 acres of it has irrigation systems, so maybe we will luck out and not have to feed. Scott said that was no problem...he has about 500 rolls each of peanut and bermuda in his steel pole barn now, that he will usually sell near all of it this winter, but he says we can feed it if we need to. But, feeding hay, etc., kinda defeats the purpose of the Corriente-Kudzu operation we have enjoyed for so long. I feel kinda like those people that buy that cute little lion cub, then all of a sudden, they got a full grown, 400 lb lion on their hands. Or the people that buy the baby alligators, that can grow to be 600 lbs and 10 feet! Neither really thought it through when they got the cute baby!!

Sorry to rattle on.. this is kinda how I talk to myself when I am thinking about something that could be a problem. I kinda work it out on "paper". Write what I think, go then back and re-read it. and see if what I wrote is still what I think, or does it need changing. or does it seem totally ridiculous!
 
A lot of good crabgrass in that.
Thanks that all started with two fifty pound bag of seed.
Back in 2011 drought my cousin was in trouble and needed hay.
We are as close as brothers so when he ask what I wanted for moving the hay to his house . I said cover my diesel and two bags of seed.
The seed was 300 bucks at the time, I knew he hadn't checked prices.
I delivered the hay bout two weeks later he called pitching a wall eye fit about the price. I was rolling laughing next day my seed arrived. I would have delivered it for just diesel and did.
About six months later I left the money on the coffee table at his house.
Phone blew up before I got home about how Sorry I was. Busted out laughing again.
 
No 1/2 Angus 1/4 Hereford and SH.
I'm up cause a dang cat tripped the security cameras at the barn and I couldn't see anything.
I am up because the doc prescribed some prednisone for me yesterday, Last time I saw the clock it was 4 AM, then old lady gets up at 5AM and I woke up too. Should have laid back down, but I took another prednisone, and am on my 4th cup of coffee and third cigarette, here at 6:45AM, so I guess that plan is shot to heck.

Nice calf!!
 
I am up because the doc prescribed some prednisone for me yesterday, Last time I saw the clock it was 4 AM, then old lady gets up at 5AM and I woke up too. Should have laid back down, but I took another prednisone, and am on my 4th cup of coffee and third cigarette, here at 6:45AM, so I guess that plan is shot to heck.

Nice calf!!
4th cup of coffee! WOW! Kinda sounds like me given half a chance. I have a Kerrig I use on weekday mornings before work, but on the weekend, I make a full pot Saturday and Sunday and drink until it's gone, and sometimes a 2nd pot. Used to be both me and Leann (wife) would drink the pot together. She switched to the Kerrig for decalf. Well, the amount of regular being consumed never waivered. If it's there, I drink it. There is a Kerrig at one of the offices I work at and make regular cups throughout the day there. I had a cup at 3:00pm today before driving 2 hours to get home.
 
4th cup of coffee! WOW! Kinda sounds like me given half a chance. I have a Kerrig I use on weekday mornings before work, but on the weekend, I make a full pot Saturday and Sunday and drink until it's gone, and sometimes a 2nd pot. Used to be both me and Leann (wife) would drink the pot together. She switched to the Kerrig for decalf. Well, the amount of regular being consumed never waivered. If it's there, I drink it. There is a Kerrig at one of the offices I work at and make regular cups throughout the day there. I had a cup at 3:00pm today before driving 2 hours to get home.
I have made a pot of coffee at 11 at night ...drank the whole thing til about 12:30.... then lay down and go to sleep. About 2 pots a day is the norm for me.
 
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Warren, crabgrass is to your coastal Bermuda what your Corrientes are to front pasture cattle. Tough, hard to get rid of, highly productive, minimal care, makes some off-color hay but will is way better quality. If it wasn't for horse people, your high dollar coastal couldn't survive in a competitive market place, where nutrition is king.
 
I just know the cattle relish it during June July and August. It comes up on its own on my better land that has been previously tilled, where I am trying to establish some other grass.
We have mostly cool season grasses and crabgrass is one of the few warm season grasses here that can stand close continuous grazing. White clover and lezpedeza thrive alongside it and make excellent pasture. These pastures maintain themselves for several years, only gradually giving way to a mixed stand of bluegrass and fescue.

Was toying with the idea of mixing in some red river crab grass in my pasture that has mostly B-Dahl bluestem. Purpose was to fill in some of the spots the bluestem hasn't and better late season summer grazing. Bluestem really drops off in quality just about the time crab grass gets going.

Can you expand on your experience with crab grass and bluestem mixed in a pasture? Likes, dislikes? Drought tolerance?
 
@Cropper, the reason that the crabgrass works in @Logan52 pastures is because his pastures are mostly cool season grasses. The annual crabgrass (a warm season grass) does not compete with the cool season perennial grasses. A bit about what determines a cool season grass from a warm season grass: Cool season grasses are C3 grasses. Warm season grasses are C4 grasses. C3 and C4 refer to the mode of respiration/cellular respiration the plant utilizes. Because of these differences, C3 and C4, or warm and cool season grasses, grow at different times of the year. What you are proposing is trying to grow a warm season annual and a warm season perennial together in the same field. You are indicating that the crabgrass is going to grow after the B-Dahl bluestem. I find this theory very suspect, but until it is tried, I can't say for certain. Cool season annuals such as oats and annual rye are used as nurse crops or cover crops at times when trying to establish perennial cool season grasses (the oats and rye are also cool season. I've never heard of anyone interseeding either of these into an existing cool season perennial to give a separate, additional forage boost if the perennial cool season grass is 'thin'. Seeding a legume such as clover is often done though.
 
the bahia on our places is slowly choking out the bermuda and seems pretty hard to control. I guess cutting hay on those fields contributes to the problem but I'd sure like to get back to a way higher % bermuda. The strange thing is that when we clear land on our place, the bermuda jumps up by itself even though thebahia takes over shortly
 
the bahia on our places is slowly choking out the bermuda and seems pretty hard to control. I guess cutting hay on those fields contributes to the problem but I'd sure like to get back to a way higher % bermuda. The strange thing is that when we clear land on our place, the bermuda jumps up by itself even though thebahia takes over shortly
Crab grass will smother the Bahia.
 
You will have to search for it, but there is a herbicide on the market that will beat back bahia that is established in Bermuda stands, as long as the bahia doesn't make up too much of the stand. The herbicide will not eliminate the bahia. I haven't seen the herbicide in action, but I found it while researching for a grazing management plan that I was writing in South Carolina. That producer had this problem.
 

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