CP Level in Finishing beef

[SouthFla]

Howdy,

I've looked through a ton of the threads in this section and have not really found the answer to a question.

Most explain in detail the makeup of their grain recipe with respect to ingredients and crude protein (CP) when asked, "What is the best way to finish a steer (or heifer )?".

Respondents to the question will invariably casually state in their grain recipe, "Give hay free choice", "Give a little hay", "I don't give any hay", etc.

Most seem to be in the 12% range for CP when talking about their grain makeup.

However, if you combine hay with grain ( which my research shows you must ) the CP level of the grain is modified by the CP level of the hay.

My question :

What is the ideal percentage of crude protein overall in dry matter intake when finishing a steer / heifer?

I apologize if this has been discussed before but I did do a google search of the this forum and read a bunch before posing.

 

[Howdyjabo]

10.5-11.5 is average.

Some have higher protein levels now as they are using ethanol by products as an energy source.

and there is some research looking into lowered protein levels and improved grades.

 

[SouthFla]

Thanks for the response Howdyjabo.

The reason I asked is that I was feeding a dairy mix of 16% and putting out 1.5% of my animal's body weight twice daily.

When they finish the grain, I put out hay after.

One cut into another's share of the grain, didn't eat any hay and then got a mild case of bloat. She is okay now but it scared me pretty good.

My vet said 16% was to hot.

I cut the dairy with 8% cracked corn ( making the grain 12% ) and reduced the amount of grain feed by 50%.

My plan is to increase the grain to hay ratio from 50/50 back to 75 / 25 grain to hay.

I guess I pushed to hard with a hotter than it should have been grain.

 

[MikeC]

You might start out the weaned calves at 16% and keep dropping the CP incrementally until finishing to about 8-10%.

That has seemed to work best for me.

 

[Howdyjabo]

Feedlots used to be real chinsy with the protien levels because at one time it was the expensive ingredient.

As far as "hot" feed- you can't get much hotter than corn.
The higher protien in manufactured Feeds goes hand in hand MOST of the time with being hot- only because (other than upping the the protein with urea)- If the protein is high it means that there is little filler as filler usually draws the protein down.
High protein=No filler=hotter feed.
But you can have straight corn with a low protein and still have a hot feed,

Adding corn to a 16% feed will only make it hotter/NOT safer

 

[ROB]

Adding corn to a 16% feed will only make it hotter/NOT safer

i'm confused. could you explain. if you have 20 lbs of feed that is running a 16% CP level and you cut it to 10lbs of corn + 10lbs of your base mix - wouldn't you be lowering the CP level to around 12%?

ROB

 

[Howdyjabo]

Might just be a problem in terms used.........


Heres mine- "HOT" lots of energy usually a starch .

Cookie Meal is "hot"
corn is "hot"
wheat is "hot"
oats- med hot


So the hottest bagged feeds are sometimes low in protein--
if made of all or mostly ---potatoes,corn,cookie meal,wheat sugar, ect.

Soybean meal IS HOT and has high protien
Soybean Hulls are NOT hot and have higher protein
CGF is NOT hot and has high protein.
Urea has No Heat and has high protein

Protein is an indicator of how hot a bagged feed is. But its a long way from absolute.

If he adds corn to an 18% protein feed-- hes lowering the protein but either maintaining the "hotness" or increasing it.

 

[SouthFla]

I'm a rookie at this for sure.

I purchased my first two head on the 18th of last month.

That's how long I've been in the feedlot business.

When my black heifer got an obvious case of the bloat, I called my vet.

He didn't call back until after the left side protrusion subsided.

He asked me what the protein level was in my feed.

When I replied 16%, he stated, "That's too hot. Lower the protien to 12% max and decrease the total amount of grain you are giving daily." (He also advised giving the heifer that was bloated straight hay for three days.)

I assumed when he said hot he meant protein too high.

I'm mixing 16% dairy feed with 8% cracked corn at a ratio of 1 to 1.

Both heifers seem to be doing well now.

 

[MikeC]

Excessive protein won't make them bloat. Just the opposite usually. Excess protein is converted to energy.

It's the carbohydrates in corn, wheat, etc. that starts acidosis and makes them bloat.

Protein aids in digestion and makes dry matter move through the gut better.

Watch their manure piles. If it starts to get to be a gray color, that means acidosis is in the rumen.

You want the manure a brighter green color and piled no higher than the tip of your boot.

If the manure is too loose, cut back on protein %.

Give them free choice hay at all times. They will more or less balance their own rations that way.

 

[rk]

I'm a rookie at this for sure.

I purchased my first two head on the 18th of last month.

That's how long I've been in the feedlot business.

When my black heifer got an obvious case of the bloat, I called my vet.

He didn't call back until after the left side protrusion subsided.

He asked me what the protein level was in my feed.

When I replied 16%, he stated, "That's too hot. Lower the protien to 12% max and decrease the total amount of grain you are giving daily." (He also advised giving the heifer that was bloated straight hay for three days.)

I assumed when he said hot he meant protein too high.

I'm mixing 16% dairy feed with 8% cracked corn at a ratio of 1 to 1.

Both heifers seem to be doing well now.

If your vet said to lower protein to solve a bloat problem, get a different vet!

 

[SouthFla]

rk,

My vet didn't say cut protein to cure bloat.

He said to cut protein.

On the bloat aspect he talked about the fine particles in feed causing gas.

He suggested hay and grass alone and no grain at all.

When I assured him I was going to continue grain, he said the protein level of my dairy mix was to high and that I should cut back.

 

[novatech]

Howdy,

I've looked through a ton of the threads in this section and have not really found the answer to a question.

Most explain in detail the makeup of their grain recipe with respect to ingredients and crude protein (CP) when asked, "What is the best way to finish a steer (or heifer )?".

Respondents to the question will invariably casually state in their grain recipe, "Give hay free choice", "Give a little hay", "I don't give any hay", etc.

Most seem to be in the 12% range for CP when talking about their grain makeup.

However, if you combine hay with grain ( which my research shows you must ) the CP level of the grain is modified by the CP level of the hay.

My question :

What is the ideal percentage of crude protein overall in dry matter intake when finishing a steer / heifer?

I apologize if this has been discussed before but I did do a google search of the this forum and read a bunch before posing.

After reading this thread I did a little googleing. Seems that corn is not as hot as I had thought.
Here is an article that may help as far as corn is concerned.
http://www.ag.ndsu.edu/pubs/ansci/beef/as1238w.htm

 

[larryshoat]

For the benefit of those not that well versed in cattle terms I think we would be better served to eliminate the "hot" analogy and speak in terms of protein and energy.For balancing rations Michigan State offers a computer program called spartan that works fairly well.A trial version can be downloaded fron their website.

Larry

 

[Howdyjabo]

When formulating rations you need to understand what is "hot" and what is "not hot". TDN and Mgcal numbers alone won't tell you reliably when you need to be careful with a feed and ramp it slowly.
And I have yet to see a bagged feed come with TDN or Mgcal listed. So you need to understand the individual ingredients.
And how to estimate the TDN and "hotness" off of the limited information given on the label.

 

[MrBilly]

We've been finishing a couple dozen per year: for six years. We have used a 13.8% CP ration all along. No ionophore in it since our customers do not want antibiotics, and we also do not implant the calves. We worked with the Univer. of GA. Animal Scientist to develop our ration, which is identical to the one they use for the UGA bull tests, minus the ionophore and the salt.

We start real slow a few pounds per day and gradually increase the feed up to 2.5% of body wt over a couple of months and more or less leave them there. I have no formula as to when to increase, if they are doing well for 10 days or more, I will make an increase of about 10%.

We usually feed for 5-6 months until finsihed (we start on feed after weaning). In the begining we pushed the feed too fast and caused bloat, luckily the past two years we have not had any. We always keep hay available free choice, this I think is important for rumen function and helps reduce the chance of bloat. The calves are always on good pasture with minerals.

We weight monthly and adjust the feed amount accordingly, but once we get to 20 lb/Head/day we pretty much stay with this.

Billy

 

[TB-Herefords]

Has anyone used or know much about the bloat drench Therabloat by pfizer?

 

[larryshoat]

We've used it in small calves .Seems to work well.

Larry

 

[MrBilly]

Has anyone used or know much about the bloat drench Therabloat by pfizer?

Yes, I have used it, but once when I had six calves bloat on feed in one weekend due to the feed people changing our ration, I ran out of Therabloat. The vet suggested we use Tide detergent in warm water, followed by mineral oil. That worked real well, and that is all we use now - it is much cheaper. Didn't affect the taste of the beef either.

Billy