Cows not bred!

[4MileCattle]

This should be a heck of a first post! Been looking on here for info for a couple years, but just now joined up. Well to make a long story short I brought my cows home off pasture last week and had the be come to prey check them. There are nine in this group two bwf heifers, five 5-7 yr old cows, and two 10+ yo cows. Well they all palpated open, they have been with my newly purchased virgin 20 month old registered Hereford bull since the end of June. Well as shocked as we were we took the bull to have him tested and his results were fine. The vet said the cows looked great one was even in heat when we brought them in. Well then the vet and bull breeder thought I should wait till january to preg again, well I'm to impaitent for that so I drew blood yesterday and took it to have it tested results were two bred, two should be recheck, and the rest open. Just wondering if anyone has had a similar experience and what my next move should be? I know it's an easy choice to sell the open cows but I'm wondering if it's my cows or bull? Thanks ahead of time!

 

[crimsoncrazy]

Gay bull.

 

[wbvs58]

It sounds like your bull is at fault, it is very unlikely that you have 9 faulty cows. Even a bull that fails a BSE can be expected to get some in calf. It sounds like he is shooting live rounds but missing the target or just not interested. Have you seen him hooked up with any cows or trying to work?
Ken

 

[thendrix]

Could it be that the bull is a little young? I have always heard 24 months to be the breeding age. I'm sure thats not the case with every bull but I would think it could be a possibility.

 

[4MileCattle]

Thanks for the replies. I have seen him interested in the cows, and the guys I bought him from said there is no reason size wise that he shouldn't have stuck them all. I'm just trying to see which way to go with this, I really don't want them bred now because we always shoot for spring calves. I'll share the blood test results with the vet and bull guy today.

 

[greatgerts]

Could it be that the bull is a little young? I have always heard 24 months to be the breeding age. I'm sure thats not the case with every bull but I would think it could be a possibility.

At 24 months, a Hereford bull should be able to breed plenty of cows. Gerts are supposed to be "late maturing" and I've had bulls breed a handful of cows around 14-15 months. The last young bull we bought covered about 20 and he started the season at 18 months old.

4MileCattle,
The hot and dry summer could have been why your cows did not get bred. I did not see where you are located, but the weather over the summer could have some bearing on the bull. If it gets too hot, his scrotum gets too hot to produce viable sperm, and therefore cause the cows not to get bred. Was the bull still running with the cows when you preg checked them? Some vets can't tell on a palpation until 35-40 days if they are bred. If the bull tried to breed them before that, it may have been in that severely hot period. Hope it works out for you.

 

[4MileCattle]

Greatgerts the bull is still in with the cows. We had a hot spell in southern Il in July and August but sep and oct were good months and they say that the blood tests should show after 30 days so I was hoping for better than two outa nine showing bred this week. I'm just not a fan of wintering these unbred cows till march for breeding. And I also don't want to feed this bull all winter as well if he can't or won't do his job! Plus if it's him I would like to work with his breeder to correct this but am not sure which way to go! ThOught about luting the open ones and seeing what he would do!

 

[angus9259]

I'm just trying to see which way to go with this, I really don't want them bred now because we always shoot for spring calves.

Well, if you want spring calves and don't want them bred now, there's only one way to go with this . . . . cows to the sale barn. Just got $1000 for a 1500 lb open cow myself. I was kinda upset to lose the young cow, but that sure soothed the wound.

Everyone open means it was the bull . . . . unless . . . . a fella in my area lost his whole calf crop to BVD brought in by deer (his cattle weren't vaccinated). Final option - heat in the summer can stress bull's testicles (or testicular infection or injury). He may have semen now, but didn't when he "bred" the cows. Saw that happen on another farm.

Depending on location - breed em and sell em as fall calvers.

Good luck. Sorry.

If I were your bull supplier, I'd offer to replace the bull to retain a good customer, but it's hard to pin the "fault" on the bull if he tested potent.

 

[Suzie Q]

As said above the weather plays a big part. You can not blame the bull breeders if the cows are open because of drought, etc.

Or if the bull is not really old enough to work yet as someone said above.

The bull has tested positive, so I would say he is coming into his 'working time'.

 

[4MileCattle]

Thanks all for the replies. I guess we might pull more blood in a few weeks and see then what they are. Reevaluate at that time and see which direction to go, my only fear is if I sell the cows, then try to sell bull to recoupe what I spent on him is how can I sell him as a breeding bull after this probably too convincing to a prospective buyer? Thanks again everyone!

 

[robertwhite]

I've got just about the same thing going on right now. Young (22mth) 1800lb Simm/BM bull has been in with heifers and cows and it doesn't appear that any are bred. Waiting on blood test results right now. Sure it was hot here during the summer, but Sept & Oct were fine. Haven't tested him yet, but if none are bred, he is most likely a Big Mac.

 

[harry]

Not knowing anything about your operation I believe a ear notch test would be in order to check and see if you have a BVD PI cow or bull in the group. At 3.50 per test it would be a cheap way to eliminate a possibility.

 

[Caustic Burno]

You say the bull is hot if he is Hereford if he can't handle 12 to 15 cow's at 12 months he aint worth a hoot in he!!.
You need a better a Hereford, the English breeds go through puberty early.

According to your post you didn't give a location or I flat missed it.
First you claimed to have the vet preg check them.
Unless your vet does this a lot I would find someone who does, I have seen a lot of first trimester open cows that calve in 6 or 7 months. You say you blood tested them I have found that to be iffy as well since I started doing it.
The blood is not lieing I am just not sure how controled the results are.
Depending on your location there are a whole host of things that cause abortion storms as well.
The BCS on your cows could be the problem.
A HOT bull with that many open cows would have this fat boy finding out why.
There is way to little info here to make a culling decision here IMO.

Bottom line that is a lot of open cows spaning years in the production cycle this makes me think abortion storm,
like your cows have immune suppresion from something like BVD and have become infested with Neospora.

 

[angus9259]

Not knowing anything about your operation I believe a ear notch test would be in order to check and see if you have a BVD PI cow or bull in the group. At 3.50 per test it would be a cheap way to eliminate a possibility.

You don't have to have a PI animal in the herd to lose a bunch of pregnancies. All you need to have happen is for BVD to hit the herd - even from an external source.

 

[bird dog]

Long legged cows, short legged bull, missing the promise land by 6". Been there done that. It will be better nest year. I would watch him very closely to make sure he is interested.

 

[thendrix]

Long legged cows, short legged bull, missing the promise land by 6".

:clap: :lol: Never heard it put that way but I guess it's true

 

[Dimitar]

Get rid of the bull. Years ago I had bison and in one herd were 10 cows and a 2 year old bull. He got 2 pregnant. Had him tested and he passed although the vet had difficulty getting a semen sample.
I saw him penetrate the cows a few times during the summer. I sent him back to the breeder and got my money back which was a small consolation. Next year I threw in a new bull and they all caught on their first service. I wonder if he had an ejaculation issue.

 

[angus9259]

Bottom line that is a lot of open cows spaning years in the production cycle this makes me think abortion storm,like your cows have immune suppresion from something like BVD and have become infested with Neospora.

I agree. Even a dud bull is going to breed ONE cow. ALL open - to me - points in directions OTHER than the bull. The bull may be ineffective TOO, but something else is fishy.

 

[Caustic Burno]

Bottom line that is a lot of open cows spaning years in the production cycle this makes me think abortion storm,like your cows have immune suppresion from something like BVD and have become infested with Neospora.

I agree. Even a dud bull is going to breed ONE cow. ALL open - to me - points in directions OTHER than the bull. The bull may be ineffective TOO, but something else is fishy.

He also said the bull tested hot, now I would retest him if he is still hot. I would have goosebumps the size of horse turds and start ear notching some cows and having them tested for trich or neospora as well.

 

[mlazyj]

18 month old bull aught to cover 20 hd cows . Do you have other cows in the same area ? Wondering about a mineral problem? I guess you could do the old school way of heat detecting and use grease markers on the cows tailheads , turn them out with the bull see if the bull ends up with any marker on his chest . No marker, gay bull . Other wise BVD of some sort . You need a do over