Cows in the grain - suggestions?

[milkmaid]

Quick question for ya'll. I guess it's related to acidosis. Boss had several cows get into the grain shed Tuesday morning, corn/barley mix, and they just tanked up. One died this afternoon, others look like they'll recover. One is down and not dead. Yet.

What do you treat a cow with at this point? There was probably 15 cows in all, too many to treat, and at 4am it was a little hard to tell which ones they were...until they started showing symptoms. Everything was literally running out of these cows like water. It's been about 36 hours since, so mineral oil isn't going to do anything for this one that's down.

The one that's down and not dead yet, we gave a bottle of 50% dextrose, and some probiotic and electrolytes. And a bit of water. What else does she need? that is...if she makes it until morning. What are we dealing with? as in, internally? acidosis = acidic imbalance, right...? so what do we correct it with? what other imbalances are there from an overload of grain and severe diarheaa?

My boss rather thinks she's a lost cause...he may be right...but I'd still like to know what's wrong with her, and how she should be treated, or even how the next one should be treated if it happens again. Or if it were to happen to me with one of my cows, I'd want a plan of action.

Comments? ideas?

 

[msscamp]

Milkmaid, I'm not sure I completely understand acidosis - but here goes. As I understand it a grain overload causes the animals body fluids to become acidic (because there is not enough microbes in the rumen to 'digest' the grain), which in turn causes the internal organs to shut down and the animal dies unless caught early enough to treat and get the grain to pass through. At 36 hours after ingestion of this much grain, I don't know of anything that might possibly reverse it and cause the internal environment to become more ph balanced. The only thing I could even think of would be to try a drench of baking soda, a little salt, and maybe some electrolytes to try to neutralize the acid already present. Just a suggestion, I honestly don't know if it would work or not. Sorry.

 

[andybob]

Milkmaid, drench scouring and listless cows with 50 grams baking soda, repeat after four hours any not showing improvement then feed plenty of roughage. I am not sure if the name is the same in the U.S.A, but 100 ml of veterinary milk of magnesia will be a better cure if readily available.
I hope this helps,they are both proven cures in feedlots.

The hurrier I am,the behinder I get!

 

[buckaroo_bif]

Don't think I'll be much help Milkmaid but we did have a fat heifer bloat on the self feeder the other day. Only thing we can figure was lack of water. When I broke ice that morning it was so cold that the tank froze up again very quickly and she probably did not have enough fluids. Also due to the cold weather she was eating more than normal no doubt.
So I agree try a Lot of fluids and electrolytes. Maybe some Probios.
What did the vet say? I'm interested as to how to approach this type of problem.
If I had been back a couple hours earlier I might have saved the fatty.
Less meat in the freezer now this winter. :(
bif

 

[Texas PaPaw]

Milkmaid, drench scouring and listless cows with 50 grams baking soda, repeat after four hours any not showing improvement then feed plenty of roughage. I am not sure if the name is the same in the U.S.A, but 100 ml of veterinary milk of magnesia will be a better cure if readily available.
I hope this helps,they are both proven cures in feedlots.

The hurrier I am,the behinder I get!

Good advice Andybob

The big feedlots actually use huge quantities for baking soda in their high grain rations for the purpose of maintaining proper rumen ph.

Good luck

Brock

 

[buckaroo_bif]

Thanks Andybobo! :D

 

[Scotty]

Sodium Bicarbinate maybe. Get the stomach back to a normal level.


Scotty

 

[msscamp]

Sodium Bicarbinate maybe. Get the stomach back to a normal level.


Scotty

Scotty, that's baking soda. Do you think it will have any effect 36 hours after ingestion of this much grain? I honestly don't know, that's why I'm asking.

 

[milkmaid]

Baking soda...now there's an idea. Put it in a calf drench bottle, mix with warm water, and tube the cow???

Boss actually wasn't going to treat this cow, figured she'd either make it or she wouldn't, and I said, "what have you got to lose?" Last time this happened (800lb heifer in the other grain shed last fall) vet suggested Kaopec, mineral oil, and there may have been one other thing. Heifer died anyway. (That probably explains my boss's attitude on treating this down cow, lol.) I figured we could (should!) try something different, so I brought out the dextrose, and electrolyte & probiotic gel capsules. May work and may not. Just a wild guess on my part as I sorted through the medicine room, since neither of us really knew what to do.

The only other thing that occurred to me later, was perhaps a dose of antitoxin (C & D AntiToxin injection) might be worth a try...? what do you folks think? I wasn't sure if we were dealing with just a pH imbalance, or if we're dealing with toxins too. Anyone know?

The cow in question that's down is not one of the better cows - left to me, I would have culled her quite some time ago, LOL - but she's 220 days bred and there's no sense in losing her if it can be avoided.

Anyone know how long the cows that appear to be on the road to recovery are still in danger of dropping over? if they look OK now are they OK, or might we find another two or three down and dead tomorrow? there's a few young cows (3-4 y/o) that are down on milk and won't touch their grain when they come in the barn, but are still up and walking normally. Those ones all right?

Thanks for the help, as usual. :)

 

[Bama]

This late in the game would a hefty dose of pepto be any help at coating the stomach lining? I've always thought it would but have never tried it. Has anyone tried it?

 

[msscamp]

This late in the game would a hefty dose of pepto be any help at coating the stomach lining? I've always thought it would but have never tried it. Has anyone tried it?

Bama, 36 hours into the game I'm thinking it's systemic by now. I don't honestly see where coating the stomach would do a bit of good. This is pure gut instinct, but I'm thinking the only thing that might help to reverse the situation is a drench of baking soda. It has an amazing ability to neutralize acid, but whether it can neutralize systemic acid or not is something I don't know. I have no experience in this realm.

 

[msscamp]

Baking soda...now there's an idea. Put it in a calf drench bottle, mix with warm water, and tube the cow???

Nothing to lose and everything to gain! Wish I could offer you more substantive help.

Anyone know how long the cows that appear to be on the road to recovery are still in danger of dropping over? if they look OK now are they OK, or might we find another two or three down and dead tomorrow? there's a few young cows (3-4 y/o) that are down on milk and won't touch their grain when they come in the barn, but are still up and walking normally. Those ones all right?

I would think that at this stage, if they are not down or dead they would be ok, but again - I have no experience with this. Just going by what I have heard and basic knowledge of rumen activity. 36 hours is a long time and I would think the biggest share of the damage should already be done. The only other thing that I can think of you might be on the look-out for is founder. Just my thoughts.

Thanks for the help, as usual. :)

 

[milkmaid]

This late in the game would a hefty dose of pepto be any help at coating the stomach lining? I've always thought it would but have never tried it. Has anyone tried it?

I thought about it, but where I discovered kaopec/bismukote seems to bind with various drugs when I'm treating a scouring calf, I'm a bit wary of giving it to this cow. What if it binds with the other stuff she's been given? I'm just not entirely sure of the kao/bismu's action in the digestive system.

Maybe I'll take a quick trip over to the farm this evening and leave my boss a note about the baking soda. Just tell him what I know and leave it up to him to treat or not in the morning, if she's still alive. I'm not working the morning shift. If it were me I would have treated 24 hours ago when I first figured out which cows were in trouble, and then treated around the clock as needed. LOL. If I can get in the pen without disturbing the other cows too badly I'll check to see if she's still alive and give ya'll an update. Fingers crossed of course.

Vicky, if you see this...any suggestions?

 

[Bama]

I hadn't thought about that, good point.

 

[Linda]

A few years back we had loaned one of our cows out to a friend so she could milk the cow. The friend called just frantic one morning to tell me the cow had gotten into a metal barrel of grain and had eaten it all. I questioned her more than once, but she insisted she had filled the barrel the night before and she found the cow with her head in the nearly empty barrel. I took the trailer over, loaded the cow, who looked fine so far. Got her to a vet who ran a hose down her throat (and got a good return of gas), drenched her with a lot of mineral oil, some baking soda, and I'm not sure what else. I think he also gave her a shot of banamine or something similar, and an antibiotic. He, too, was hesitant to believe the cow could have eaten that much grain and still was walking around, but the lady came along and convinced him. It turned out to be about 80 pounds of grain. He also became a believer after he got that tube into her. He didn't give her much chance of making it, but she sailed right through the episode. She's going on 15 now and is bred back.

 

[Vicky the vet]

Vicky, if you see this...any suggestions?

I've seen a LOT of cows with grain overload. The way I've had success is with baking soda +/- mineral oil, sometimes with carmalax. By the time they're down, you're not going to save them because the bottom of their rumen is burned off and they'll never recover, in my experience. And 15 isn't that many, I treated over 20 at a dairy in the middle of the night a few years ago....

V

 

[Jeanne - Simme Valley]

If the other dozen or so survive, is there a chance for founder?

 

[milkmaid]

Vicky, would you treat the others that are still up? or are they probably alright? still go with the baking soda mix this late (48 hours later)?

 

[sidney411]

Vicky - could you elaborate on what you mean by the bottom of their rumen burned off? So are you saying that they actually have a hole in thie stomach that can't be repaired? Where is the line drawn, how much grain is too much?

 

[go-pokes-osu]

I'd mix a small box of baking soda with 5 gallons of water and tube her to correct the acidosis. Also give some type of probiotic like probiocin to replenish rumen bugs, couple days of banamine for toxemia/septicemia and broad spectrum antibiotic like Nuflor, LA 200 or Tetradure. Watch for bloat because sodium bicarbonate does release carbon dioxide gas when it reacts with an acid. This late in the game it might not turn out well, but it'd be worth a shot.