MountainFarmChar
Well-known member
You hear a lot of talk about how the bull will influence calf birth weight, etc., but you don't hear much talk about how the cow will influence these things. Why?
Cow Influence
- Thread starter MountainFarmChar
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It's easier to blame the bull. The cow, in my humble opinion actually has more actual influence on the calf then the bull, not geneticly but developmentally. It's her ability/skills at nurturing the calf both from conceptin to birth and post birth to weaning that can make or break a calf. Of course if she does a lousey job she find new emplyoment, but hers are the important influences.
dun
dun
*Cowgirl*
Well-known member
:clap:dun":1toswhn6 said:
bigbull338
Well-known member
the reason why you hear them say the bull is half the calf potental.is this once you get a set of cows.they will stay in the herd till they get tobe problem cows an culled.the bulls on the other hand only stay in a herd 2yrs.because you are keeping their daughters.an have to change bulls to prevent inbreeding.so you use the genetics of the bulls to improve your cow herd though the heifers you retain.MountainFarmChar":xio5h7tx said:
George Monk
Well-known member
I whole heartedly agree with Dun. We have 7 et calves on the ground from the same flush that range in bw from 74-98 lbs (82 and 98 were two bulls). the 98# bull came from a reciept cow that has always had one of the bigger calves at calving time.
IMO the birth weight is way over blown. I think many cattlemen who should know better are forgetting they are raising beef! Stay away from the extremes and you will be fine.
IMO the birth weight is way over blown. I think many cattlemen who should know better are forgetting they are raising beef! Stay away from the extremes and you will be fine.
I think there's another ethiopian in the fuel supply with ET calves. I persoanlly think that even though he nucleus is removed still plays a part. When clones can be as dissimiliar as some of them are as they mature, there has to be another affect.
But I'm no high school graduate so it's just a gut feeling.
dun
But I'm no high school graduate so it's just a gut feeling.
dun
MountainFarmChar":8sb7sc20 said:
Because its not nice to talk bad about a lady. :lol:
Besides, they never underatand a compliment when they hear it anyway.
Just try walking up to a women and telling her she is a really good looking heifer.
George Monk
Well-known member
the et embryos we implanted were not clones. They are simply brothers and sisters in the same family. I am nothing like my two brothers, both of them were skinny one was 5'8 the 6'3 neither weighed over 160. i am the youngest and am 6'1 weighing 205 (if I keep working at it 
). I have 4 sisters that were just as dissimilar.
The reason I used the et's as an example is because I firmly believe that even the highest accuracy BW bull will have calves born in a 20 - 30 pound range! While a low birth weight bull is going to have a range from 50 to 80 lbs there is no guarentee that on the "wrong" cow that calf will be 100+ lbs. Even high birth weight bulls can throw a 60ish pound calf. Too many producers are sacrificing WW, YW, muscle etc. in favor of a supposed low birth weight bull.
). I have 4 sisters that were just as dissimilar. The reason I used the et's as an example is because I firmly believe that even the highest accuracy BW bull will have calves born in a 20 - 30 pound range! While a low birth weight bull is going to have a range from 50 to 80 lbs there is no guarentee that on the "wrong" cow that calf will be 100+ lbs. Even high birth weight bulls can throw a 60ish pound calf. Too many producers are sacrificing WW, YW, muscle etc. in favor of a supposed low birth weight bull.
George Monk":1fxv0080 said:the et embryos we implanted were not clones. They are simply brothers and sisters in the same family. I am nothing like my two brothers, both of them were skinny one was 5'8 the 6'3 neither weighed over 160. i am the youngest and am 6'1 weighing 205 (if I keep working at it
The reason I used the et's as an example is because I firmly believe that even the highest accuracy BW bull will have calves born in a 20 - 30 pound range! While a low birth weight bull is going to have a range from 50 to 80 lbs there is no guarentee that on the "wrong" cow that calf will be 100+ lbs. Even high birth weight bulls can throw a 60ish pound calf. Too many producers are sacrificing WW, YW, muscle etc. in favor of a supposed low birth weight bull.
ETs I think are just as much as a crap shoot as a normal breeding, you just get to throw the dice more. We've used the same mating on one cow 7 times. The first 5 where great calves, got one heifer from that mating and she is a great cow. Got another heifer from the mating last year and kept her as a replacement. Now that she's a yearling the only thing she'll be replacing is the meat in the freezer. Just had a bull calf from the old cow by the same bull. To put it as politely as possible, he is crap pure and simple.
That's one of the reasons that I don;t comprehend why poeple are willing to pay a ton of money for a young animal from a mating that has in the past produced something exceptional without seeing how it's going to turn out.
dun
George Monk
Well-known member
I agree again Dun. The same genetic blender is at work with et as it is with natural breeding.
For us we would be willing to pay a little $200 -500 for embyos because the odds of getting a better animal that what we can breed is sure bet. We are also trying to work toward a registered herd and then produce excellent F1's.
I am fortunately very lucky and have a tremendous oportunity because of fantastic people to implant embryos that are well worth the effort and money.
This opportunity has accelerated the growth of our herd by generations.
For us we would be willing to pay a little $200 -500 for embyos because the odds of getting a better animal that what we can breed is sure bet. We are also trying to work toward a registered herd and then produce excellent F1's.
I am fortunately very lucky and have a tremendous oportunity because of fantastic people to implant embryos that are well worth the effort and money.
This opportunity has accelerated the growth of our herd by generations.
MountainFarmChar
Well-known member
I sold an old Charolais cow last year that weighed 1700# and she always had a good calf every year, big calf (lots of bone mass). I have three cows now that are out of her but none near as big as she was (thank goodness), one daughter and two granddaughters. No matter the bull (so far) used on these cows they always have a big frame calf (lots of bone mass).
I persuaded the breeding of that old cow is the reason for this. The over due heifer I spoke about in an earlier post that needed some help with her calf is one of the granddaughters.
I persuaded the breeding of that old cow is the reason for this. The over due heifer I spoke about in an earlier post that needed some help with her calf is one of the granddaughters.
Jeanne - Simme Valley
Well-known member
I am in total agreement with Dun. The FACTORY makes the difference. I have had cows that I could breed to a billy goat and she would still have a 120# calf. Some are just "fetus" developers.
