Cow Culling Conundrum

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WarEagle73

WarEagle73

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Joined
Aug 12, 2012
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166
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North Alabama
Today was weaning day at our farm and this year we borrowed a set of scales from a local Extension office to weigh the cows and calves. The data was neat to see. Some cows were bigger than we thought, some smaller. Calf weights were good. The problem is a cow that I was determined to cull was one of the top performers....I'll explain.



Sorry for the horrible pictures, but you get the point. She has no capacity. Shallow chested. Always thin fleshed. On top of that she is a pain to work. She always jumps the fence and causes problems on working days. Just one of those cows that makes you dread working. Easy cull right?

The problem is....

This is her heifer calf. Phenotypically, she is great. Lots of butt and guts. And weighed up average for the herd. The cow weighs 878 pounds and her calf was 499 lbs for 56.83% of BW Weaned. I put a lot of value in that percentage of BW weaned.

So, keep or cull?
Bred to calve on time
Never missed a calf
4 year old
above average producer
poor docility
poor body type

What would you do?
 
WDE.
You don't like her looks, she's a PITA, cow prices are pretty good right now, winter's coming on.
Unless she's carrying an AI calf that you REALLY want... keep the heifer and send the cow to town.

Somebody said it well here just recently - there are too many good cows to put up with one like that...
 
Her calves when bred could throw back to her frame.
If she was the best looking cow on the place and I cussed her more than once she would have to go.
 
Her job is to raise a good calf. She did it, so would you rather a 'better looking' cow raising a worse calf? How many times a year does she bother you? 2 or 3? I have to put up with people everyday that bother me more, but I cant get rid of them. I'd throw her back in the pack and ignore her.

*unless - I was at capacity and had something better to take her spot and she was on the list for something another cow could out do her on.

People on here seem to get rid of a cow for as little as her looking at them sideways... Probably the reason the avg cow doesn't start returning a profit until 4 or 5, and something like 50% of the US herd never see's that age.

She'd hit the ring and go a little crazy, someone would scoop her up cheap and throw her out in their field and ignore her for the next 10 yrs and make money on her for 9 of them. Chances are she'd get quieter each yr too as she slows down, likely put on a little weight too.
 
I've found that some cows go through stages. This may just be her thin stage. Since she's just 4 i'd give her another year to fluff out. I'd wait to sell. Watch her over the winter and if she struggles, keep that in mind next year at weaning. Some of our biggest performers struggled at 4.
 
Is she dangerous?

When she jumps fences, does she make big repair bills and/or is she at risk of causing an accident on a nearby road?

Do you cuss her more than 2-3 times a year?

When you consider your heifers you're going to keep for next year, are you at or above capacity?

**************

If you say yes to any of the four, I'd put her on a trailer and drive to the barn or the butcher.
 
What you found is why it is so important to measure/weigh your cow herd and your calves. The calves you want to keep are the ones that perform the best the cows you want to keep are the ones producing those top calves. Sometimes the ulgy cow is the best cow in the herd, we had one like that I actually flushed her at the age of 13 because for 11 years she weaned a calf on the top end of the herd bred back and did it again, but she was ugly. Your calves look really good your on the right track for sure!

gizmom
 
As long as she calves on time and raises a good calf what her condition isn't as big as long as your not putting extra feed into her to get her by. I mess up more with the good looking cows that raise a subpar calf and I make a mental note to keep an eye on and then talk myself into thinking they'll do better next year and forget about them until there next subpar calf.

If the only time you have to handle her is calving and weaning and she is not dangerous I would probably not cull her based on attitude if I am able to catch her even if it is a little more work a couple times a year.
 
We're keeping some around now that aren't stellar performers, 'cause we have available grass, and a 500 lb calf is better than no calf when sale day rolls around.
After having a few bad actors that jumped gates, led half the herd the other direction when trying to get 'em up... I can say I was glad to see them go, even though they often raised some of the best calves... not worth the headaches.
 
Lucky_P":2ghkrdg6 said:
We're keeping some around now that aren't stellar performers, 'cause we have available grass, and a 500 lb calf is better than no calf when sale day rolls around.
After having a few bad actors that jumped gates, led half the herd the other direction when trying to get 'em up... I can say I was glad to see them go, even though they often raised some of the best calves... not worth the headaches.
Click to expand...
I subscribe to Jeanne from simmi valley's saying of COD. Cull On Disposition!
 
This is easy. Cull simply for trying to tear down fence and leading the others in a jail break when penning. I don't care if it is only once per year. You can replace her possibly with what you sell her for. If her heifer calf has her demeanor, ship her too. If the heifer seems more cordial, give her a chance. Penning cattle shouldn't include fence repair. JMO
 
We are at capacity. I really have 3 options to think about I guess. We had a lot of heifers this time and really like most of them so we are going to keep more than normal to breed back. So I have a couple of options.

I can cull this cow is a good performer, but docility sucks or I can cull a different cow that is more docile, but a poorer performer (1290 lb. cow and 451 lb. steer calf).

I don't really care how she looks or if she is in good body condition, because she bred back on time and raised a solid calf. Her looks were just one more reason why I justified to sell her. She isn't dangerous, she just gets a little hot when you get her in small pens. We might can make our crowding pens a little taller and stronger to fix that issue.

I am legitimately torn. There is a lot to be said for a cow that is easy to work and doesn't cause problems, but is that more important than her ability to convert grass to calf? We are trying to develop a culling criteria plan for the future and I'm just not sure which to put more weight in. Thanks for all you responses.
 
Years ago we started selecting for both. Haven;t had to ship out a looney in along time. Now they get 1 strike and they leave, same goes for breeding on time and weaning a representative calf. It's kind of funny that now we;re down to around 30 head that all but 2 of them go back to just 2 cows. The other 2 go back to another cow.
 
Ugly is one thing, but ugly and flightly? We all can use stronger pens but not to offset one cows disposition...pretty soon her performance gets outweighed..
 
WarEagle73":jcfeaxdm said:
I am legitimately torn. There is a lot to be said for a cow that is easy to work and doesn't cause problems, but is that more important than her ability to convert grass to calf?
Click to expand...

You don't have to choose. Any cow in a population limited herd that cannot do BOTH leaves. If she were just ugly and productive - no problem. Crazy and productive, no need to bother.
 
Flighty and mean are two different things. If you bulk up your pens a little and she figures out she's caught she might settle down some and it will prevent future problems by keeping cattle from getting spoiled in the first place. If it gets to the point where you're nervous working around her then ship her but I wouldn't cull one That really works just because she's figured out that my fences are more of a suggestion than a hard and fast rule.
 
War Eagle

I owe you an apology for not reading your entire post. I missed the jumping fence portion. I would never tell you to keep a cow that has a bad disposition, but you are the only one that knows just how bad she acts. That is the trouble with message boards at times folks (and I am one of them) don't read a post carefully enough and give a flat answer, when in fact there are a number of variables that would impact that answer. We cull hard for disposition, I have been on the receiving end of a mean cow and will be the first to tell you it is not a happy place. There is a big difference between one that comes at you and one that runs from you but neither are fun to work around. If it is one that will come at you to me that is a flat send her to town. A cow that is flighty can cause the whole herd to get stirred up, but your the only one that knows just how bad that is, therefore the only one that can make that call. We have kept a couple of cows over the years that I would call flighty but not to an extreme, we knew we had to work around them slow and easy and they would be ok. We were building numbers at the time so unless they were really bad they got to stay, but once we got our numbers up they were the first to go. So anyway sorry for not reading more carefully, hopefully the old ugly cow was always easy to get along with so she was never on the watch list for disposition.

Oh and I need to add since we are just weeks away from a new football season "ROLL TIDE"

gizmom
 
Big cow with small calf goes here. You can keep 3 heifers in that pairs place likely, and then the following year decide on the skinny cow with the good calf, as you'll have bred heifers ready to jump in place. If she's not eating a lot and raising a good calf, there's genetics there to work with more so than a big cow not raising a good calf.

I'm guilty of spending too much time watching and being around my cattle. But really the fact is, the more I can let them do their thing, and then show up to collect calves the better.

I put one group of 30 some pairs in a field last week with no fence on 2 sides of it (woods bordered).. They were still there when I went to move them yesterday, grass was gone and they were ready for the next field. :clap:
 
The only reason I would cull because of the reasons you wanted to cull is because she jumps the fence. Can't have that. Being thin is not a problem as long as they raise a good calf and she for sure did that. If she doesn't get out all the time and bother you keep her.....when she starts becoming a nuisance then I would sell her.
 
I was very glad that we sold flighty cows last year despite of them throws great calves. Boy what a huge difference in the herd as our herd is super quiet and super easy to work with this year. Short but quick process with catching cattle.
 

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