Obviously grain is going to have a better conversion but does anyone know solid numbers? I have heard conversion rates from 5:1 all the way down to 10:1 but there is not any breakdown in the stuff I have read. It would be helpful for me to know to help me decide what to feed depending on the growth I want.
Conversion Ratios for Hay and Grain
- Thread starter SCRUBS620
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novaman
Well-known member
Depends on a lot of factors. Type of animal being fed, quality of feed, environment the animal is in, etc.
SCRUBS620
Well-known member
OK let me narrow it down a bit. If I am talking about lightweight angus calves ~400 to 600 lbs and I am shooting for 2.0 ADG. How much more hay would have to be given versus corn. I know you cant exclusively feed one or the other but with the price of hay around here I need to know if it is worth giving them a largely hay diet when I could do the same thing with corn and a little bit of hay with less mess and less waste. I am only feeding a few and they have access to winter pasture. Do I need to feed hay at all if I am giving them a complete corn ration? Thanks for all your help.
hayray
Well-known member
SCRUBS620":3r1vif2o said:
The ADG has a lot to do with NEg values, regardless if it is hay or grain. If you are going to be finishing these cattle than you can easily go to 85% corn and 15% hay for beef cattle. If you are back grounding for replacements than you should keep concentrates at no higher than 40-50% of the diet otherwise it may decrease their ability to digest hay latter on in life. If you want to save money by not feeding hay than check out some articles on limit feeding corn. Found a bunch of stuff on the internet about it, the University of Virginia Extension has some for example diets on their Cow calf manager web site.
SCRUBS620
Well-known member
Hayray
Thanks that is more of what I was looking for. How do you find out the NEg for corn and hay. Do you have to have the hay tested? It is fairly decent alfalfa/orchard grass hay, fine and leafy. I would assume there would be a standard NEg for corn. I appreciate your help.
Thanks that is more of what I was looking for. How do you find out the NEg for corn and hay. Do you have to have the hay tested? It is fairly decent alfalfa/orchard grass hay, fine and leafy. I would assume there would be a standard NEg for corn. I appreciate your help.
SCRUBS620":4gapl8zo said:Hayray
Thanks that is more of what I was looking for. How do you find out the NEg for corn and hay. Do you have to have the hay tested? It is fairly decent alfalfa/orchard grass hay, fine and leafy. I would assume there would be a standard NEg for corn. I appreciate your help.
.7 for shell corn
novaman
Well-known member
You have to feed at least some hay. I think the bare minimum is 0.25% of the animals body weight. The animal has to be taken slowly to this stage. However the less hay and the more grain you have in the ration the more careful you have to be with such things as acidosis and bloat.SCRUBS620":12kvwkbn said:
hayray
Well-known member
SCRUBS620":3cz6p6pr said:Hayray
Thanks that is more of what I was looking for. How do you find out the NEg for corn and hay. Do you have to have the hay tested? It is fairly decent alfalfa/orchard grass hay, fine and leafy. I would assume there would be a standard NEg for corn. I appreciate your help.
Here is a listing from a chart in a Michigan State University Extension Bulletin called "Fundementals of Beef Cattle Nutrion, It states that if you are feeding Alfalfa and corn as the diet and you want approximately 2 lb.s of average daily gain then you can do that by feeding 60% corn and 40% alfalfa. That diet would have a Net Energy of Gain of .50 Mcal of NEg/lb. If you are feeding a mixed hay then just add a little more corn to bring your NEg values up. So figure you have a 500 lb average animal then you need to figure on calves that they will eat 3 % of their body weight in dry matter intake. So take 500(.03)= 15 lbs. of dry matter. So you need to figure that the hay and corn is 88% dry matter. So feed .88(x)=15 makes x = 17 lbs. of feed - of which .60 * 17 = 10 lbs. of corn a day and 7 lbs. of hay a day. What I would do if I wanted to keep that rate of gain down to 2 lbs. a day then I would feed free choice hay for the most part and then feed 5 lbs. of corn twice a day. Adjust dry matter intake as they begin to gain weight.
hayray
Well-known member
You probably should add a pound of soybean meal a day to that ration, with that high of grain intake also I don't know how usable the protien in the hay is.somn":ioeyvsgg said:SCRUBS620":ioeyvsgg said:Hayray
Thanks that is more of what I was looking for. How do you find out the NEg for corn and hay. Do you have to have the hay tested? It is fairly decent alfalfa/orchard grass hay, fine and leafy. I would assume there would be a standard NEg for corn. I appreciate your help.
.7 for shell corn
Tod Dague
Well-known member
Try these, you will need Excel. This is for young calves.
http://www.ansi.okstate.edu/software/OSUNRC2002.xls
This one is for cows.
http://www.ansi.okstate.edu/exten/cowculator/
These will give you an idea as to how your animals will perform. Some will do better some worse but on the average it is pretty close.
If you have your hay tested you can change the values in the feed list of both pieces of software.
http://www.ansi.okstate.edu/software/OSUNRC2002.xls
This one is for cows.
http://www.ansi.okstate.edu/exten/cowculator/
These will give you an idea as to how your animals will perform. Some will do better some worse but on the average it is pretty close.
If you have your hay tested you can change the values in the feed list of both pieces of software.
regenwether
Well-known member
4-6 wt. cattle . Big differnece right there. Steers or heifers?? If your going to Fatten out them calves becareful with pushing the corn to heifers. It can make the difference between the heifer finishing at 1050#'s or 1250#'s. I just sold two pot load's of mostly heifer's averaging over 1300#'s. Short squaty hiefers just don't dollar up much.
SCRUBS620
Well-known member
regenwether":19ij3w9a said:4-6 wt. cattle . Big differnece right there. Steers or heifers?? If your going to Fatten out them calves becareful with pushing the corn to heifers. It can make the difference between the heifer finishing at 1050#'s or 1250#'s. I just sold two pot load's of mostly heifer's averaging over 1300#'s. Short squaty hiefers just don't dollar up much.
Your right there is a big difference between 4 and 6 weights. I am just going to keep a few through each winter. I like to buy them at 300 to 400 lbs, grow them modestly through the winter and then sell them in March or April. I am not looking to put a lot of flesh on them but I woulf like for them to be 500 to 600 lbs when I sell them. Do you think 2 lbs ADG is too much? Will this hinder them down the line? The root of my question is does it really pay to feed mostly hay when I can get good quality gains on a ration based more upon grain. When I ran the numbers on the spreadsheet from Oklahoma State (thanks to Tod Dague - Great Link!) a mainly corn diet converted at 5:1 to 6:1 whereas a all hay diet converted at 10:1 to 11:1. The hay I am getting is $2.50 to $3.00 per small square bale (I dont have the equipment to move large round bales but I am not abig fan of them anyway). They weigh about 45 lbs on average. The cost per lb gain at 10:1 would be $0.61 The cost of gain from the bagged feed is only $0.54 per lb at a 6:1 ratio. This last spring and early summer I was putting on a lb at between $0.26 and $0.40 but that was with good spring pasture.
One more question. Does the type of feed affect the type of growth the calves put on? If they are gaining 2 lbs a day are they necessarily going to be fleshier with smaller frames if their diet is mainly corn?
Thanks for all of the input that I got. It has really been helpful.
SCRUBS620":36tt8a1o said:
*No, 2lbs ADG is not too much. I like a 2 to 2.5lb ADG off my holstein calves; you ought to get at least that off your beef calves.
*If you buy in the fall (October?) at 300lbs, and sell in March, that's 5 months, so you'd want them at least 600lbs with a 2lb ADG.
*Will a 2lb ADG hinder them down the line? no -- they're more likely to be hindered by a lower ADG, as their growth would be stunted, and poor growth caused by poor nutrition leads to a poor immune system and poor health.
*If you can get grain cheap -- and cheaper than hay -- and it would make your pounds of feed per pounds of gain ration cheaper than feeding hay, then get the grain. Remember they would need hay too, and free choice.
You can feed grain up to 3% of an animal's bodyweight -- personally, I'd feed grain at 2% of their bodyweight and give free choice hay. On a holstein calf, I can get a 2-2.5lb ADG off that, sometimes even with less grain.
The more weight you can put on them at the lowest cost in the fastest amount of time, the quicker you get your money back and the more money you make.
Stocker Steve
Well-known member
It depends...
I have backgrounded on 100% hay with 120 to 140 RFV for $72 a ton. Worked well with 5 and 6 wt cattle. Their ADG was 1.5 to 1.7.
I have backgrounded on free choice cob corn and hay. (Corn was $1.50 a bushel that year so I decided to try pushing them.) Worked OK on 6 and 7 wt continental steers but English breeds got too fleshy. Their ADG was 3.0. Rough numbers on feed conversion was between 10 and 11... Low labor but too expensive unless you have free grain.
Some of the big guys use a bale processer to fence line feed poor hay that is top dressed with grain and by products.
I have backgrounded on 100% hay with 120 to 140 RFV for $72 a ton. Worked well with 5 and 6 wt cattle. Their ADG was 1.5 to 1.7.
I have backgrounded on free choice cob corn and hay. (Corn was $1.50 a bushel that year so I decided to try pushing them.) Worked OK on 6 and 7 wt continental steers but English breeds got too fleshy. Their ADG was 3.0. Rough numbers on feed conversion was between 10 and 11... Low labor but too expensive unless you have free grain.
Some of the big guys use a bale processer to fence line feed poor hay that is top dressed with grain and by products.
