Contract negotiations

[tncattle]

I'm in the process of negotiating a contract where I will be managing a farm for our of state owner. We're at a sticking point sort of on whether I can own some of my own cows to increase my income for me and my family.

I will receive a salary and the cows I would own will be part of the herd. One of my jobs is to expand the operation. I have already made a handshake deal (contract in writing coming) with another farm owner where we could lease his 300 acres of pasture, his cows, all of his facilities & equipment and run our own stockers as part of expanding the operation. That is the farm where I would add my own cows to the existing herd of cows we would lease and I don't feel it would hurt my performance managing both places as my cows would be a small part of the overall herd. Whatever % my cows made up of the herd I would pay that % of cost that they incur like hay, meds. etc.

I know I'm probably not thinking of something so let me hear from you all because many of you are way smarter than I am-- :dunce:

 

[Isomade]

If you are saying you are wanting to run your cows WITH his on his land for me as the owner the answer would be NO WAY IN HEII. If you are running your own cows on your own land and your own time that is none of his business.

 

[Howdyjabo]

I wouldn't go for running your own cows on my land either- esp if your JOB is to expand MY operation.
. Now if I am not confused and you have another deal going with leased land/cows too- it would be none of my business if you ran whatever you wanted with the leased cows on the leased land.

 

[tncattle]

It's the latter, running my own on leased land.

 

[circlew]

It's the latter, running my own on leased land.

I don't see where its any of his business if you run your own cows on your own lease. I have a day job and cows and I get my day job done just fine. It shouldn't be any different for you.

 

[tom4018]

It's the latter, running my own on leased land.

I don't see where its any of his business if you run your own cows on your own lease. I have a day job and cows and I get my day job done just fine. It shouldn't be any different for you.

I agree, but you lost me when you mentioned the % part it made it sound like you were running them together.

 

[tncattle]

Okay, the land that would be leased was found and negotiated by me. In that lease we get 85 cows, 300 acres of good grass set up into 20 paddocks for rotational grazing, full working facilities that are top notch and farm equipment like tractor, bushhog etc. We pay for the lease by the owner getting a % of the total revenue. Maybe I'm clueless or something. I was wanting to add some of my own cows to that deal and I would pay for their cost by what % of the herd they made up.

 

[tom4018]

Okay, the land that would be leased was found and negotiated by me. In that lease we get 85 cows, 300 acres of good grass set up into 20 paddocks for rotational grazing, full working facilities that are top notch and farm equipment like tractor, bushhog etc. We pay for the lease by the owner getting a % of the total revenue. Maybe I'm clueless or something. I was wanting to add some of my own cows to that deal and I would pay for their cost by what % of the herd they made up.

Is there another farm you are going to be working full time for? If so is this the one complaining?

 

[tncattle]

Okay, the land that would be leased was found and negotiated by me. In that lease we get 85 cows, 300 acres of good grass set up into 20 paddocks for rotational grazing, full working facilities that are top notch and farm equipment like tractor, bushhog etc. We pay for the lease by the owner getting a % of the total revenue. Maybe I'm clueless or something. I was wanting to add some of my own cows to that deal and I would pay for their cost by what % of the herd they made up.

Is there another farm you are going to be working full time for? If so is this the one complaining?

Yes and that farm I got the lease on is part of that FT time job. The key is the farm that we're going to lease we want actually own anything on it, we're leasing all of it. I'm probably confusing y'all more, ask questions and I'll try to answer more clearly

 

[tom4018]

I am confused. Two farms and same person owns them?

My thoughts would be if it is different farms and owners, the day job should not have any right to say anything about what you do in your off time as long as it does not hinder your performance. I think mixing cows could be a problem, people do it though.

 

[tncattle]

I am confused. Two farms and same person owns them?

My thoughts would be if it is different farms and owners, the day job should not have any right to say anything about what you do in your off time as long as it does not hinder your performance. I think mixing cows could be a problem, people do it though.

Let me try again, I will manage a farm & cows for my boss. My boss wants me to expand the operation so I've already found another 300 acres, 85 cows and all facilities & equipment to lease as part of the expanding. He want actually "own" the 300 acre farm and all that we lease from it (everything). Does that make sense?

 

[Isomade]

I am confused. Two farms and same person owns them?

My thoughts would be if it is different farms and owners, the day job should not have any right to say anything about what you do in your off time as long as it does not hinder your performance. I think mixing cows could be a problem, people do it though.

Let me try again, I will manage a farm & cows for my boss. My boss wants me to expand the operation so I've already found another 300 acres, 85 cows and all facilities & equipment to lease as part of the expanding. He want actually "own" the 300 acre farm and all that we lease from it (everything). Does that make sense?

My answer in that case would be NO. I would only lead to problems.

 

[tom4018]

I am confused. Two farms and same person owns them?

My thoughts would be if it is different farms and owners, the day job should not have any right to say anything about what you do in your off time as long as it does not hinder your performance. I think mixing cows could be a problem, people do it though.

Let me try again, I will manage a farm & cows for my boss. My boss wants me to expand the operation so I've already found another 300 acres, 85 cows and all facilities & equipment to lease as part of the expanding. He want actually "own" the 300 acre farm and all that we lease from it (everything). Does that make sense?

I would think he would have a problem mixing his cattle with the others on that leased farm.

 

[Howdyjabo]

If hes paying the lease its the same as him owning it--- I wouldn't let you put cattle in with mine, just too many headaches.
Find some more land to rent for yourself and your cows.

 

[regolith]

The farmer who is employing you is planning to pay the lease and all running costs for the lease land and cattle you have negotiated, is that how it goes?

The standard advice here for lower order sharemilking (management type) situations is that the sharemilker owning cows in the same herd gets 'messy' and that those cows should be leased to the herd owner, or the herd owner's cows leased to the share-milker and a herd owning (50/50) sharemilking contract put in place, thus one entity always has the final decision making on things like feed and vet treatment and daily management.
I have walked away from offers of management with my cows leased into the herd, because it was an insult to me and my herd and because of the harm I could see happening to my cows that were on lease to other herds.

Just food for thought. I agree with what the previous three posters have said btw. In this country all dairy cows tend to be similar in terms of breeding and disease exposure, that's not the case for your herds from what I read and a great many of the health issues I'm dealing with this year are due my leased out cows under poor management and mixing with poorer health cattle last year.

 

[novatech]

The lease pasture and the lease cows are not relevant. You are putting your cows in with his or his lease cows, for extra income. You will be using his grass and his time taking care of your cows and his. Running your cows with his will be considered part of your pay.
If this scenario is right I don't see anything wrong with the plan if both of you agree on it.

 

[circlew]

This is an idea, some people do it around here. Your boss could lease the new place then you could lease it from him for a little more. He would be making money and you would have some cows. Just a thought.

 

[tncattle]

The lease pasture and the lease cows are not relevant. You are putting your cows in with his or his lease cows, for extra income. You will be using his grass and his time taking care of your cows and his. Running your cows with his will be considered part of your pay.
If this scenario is right I don't see anything wrong with the plan if both of you agree on it.

That is exactly the situation. And he actually isn't paying the lease upfront, it comes out of the revenue that the cows produce.

 

[Angus Cowman]

alot of ranches I have worked for allow their managers to own a small amount of cows out of the ranches herd of cows usually like 1-2%
in Oklahoma I could own upto 10 cows in the herd of 1000 that I took care of

alot of owners don't allow it and some do
if I was you I would lease some land and run my own cows on my own land it is far less complicated and when you or him decide it is time to move on your cows are already off of his place

 

[BC]

if I was you I would lease some land and run my own cows on my own land it is far less complicated and when you or him decide it is time to move on your cows are already off of his place

This is good advice. You might still be in business when the man you are working for decides there are other things that make more money.