Clovers

[Dusty Britches]

We found out that we have several varieties of clover in our south pastures and virtually none in our north pastures. (Not sure why, but that's not why I'm posting.)

In the south pastures, we have bur clover, white clover and an old variety of arrowleaf. We have never seeded clover here.

Where the bur clover is the thickest now, we have the least amount of grass in the summer. In fact, some patches won't have any grass.

In the north pastures, where there isn't any clover, the grass is thick and healthy and there are not any bald spots.

Why do you suppose that is?

 

[mitchwi]

Clover is more a "cool" season variety? I'm guessing here, but I have some of the same issues.... and we are VERY different environments.

Michele

 

[ALACOWMAN]

sounds like the clover has a better opportunity to grow in the south pasture by not being shaded out by the other grass's. the cattle will spread the seeds around. do you rotate them much back and forth from one to the other?

 

[Dusty Britches]

Yes, we rotate, but don't the clovers lose palatability when the seeds develop?

When I say bald spots, these spots are only about 5-6 feet in diameter. I think it is strange that the clover grows great in those spots, but nothing else does. It looks like bare clay.

Perhaps you are right about the dormant grasses being too thick for cool season clovers to grow. Makes sense.

Just because I was good and saved some extra pennies, I was thinking about doing a soil sample on those "spots".

 

[ALACOWMAN]

Yes, we rotate,

• but don't the clovers lose palatability when the seeds develop?

When I say bald spots, these spots are only about 5-6 feet in diameter. I think it is strange that the clover grows great in those spots, but nothing else does. It looks like bare clay.

Perhaps you are right about the dormant grasses being too thick for cool season clovers to grow. Makes sense.

Just because I was good and saved some extra pennies, I was thinking about doing a soil sample on those "spots".

not that im aware of.

 

[rmcva]

We found out that we have several varieties of clover in our south pastures and virtually none in our north pastures. (Not sure why, but that's not why I'm posting.)

In the south pastures, we have bur clover, white clover and an old variety of arrowleaf. We have never seeded clover here.

Where the bur clover is the thickest now, we have the least amount of grass in the summer. In fact, some patches won't have any grass.

In the north pastures, where there isn't any clover, the grass is thick and healthy and there are not any bald spots.

Why do you suppose that is?

Well I'm a long way from you and sure soil and climate is very different. But I have the same thing in a 3 acre field. That's 3 acres out of 130 in grass.

This field was used for tobacco up until 1979. So I know a little about the soil from what I saw with the tobacco. This field suffers far worse in drought than any other on the farm. There's one spot I can hit solid rock with a subsoiler. I have no idea how wide an area the rock covers but when it gets dry you can kinda see the picture. With tobacco we irrigated and took care of the soil being dried out faster but it used more water than the other fields. Even with irrigation there would be 25-30 ft in rows maybe 10 rows wide that the tobacco would never get over 3 ft. tall when dealing with drought. That's where I hit rock down about 22" with the subsoiler.

Now this is only what I think because I can't prove it. :lol: In dry years I lose most of the grass and all the clover. But the clover has seeded out before it dries up. Then when rain does come the fescue is dead and the clover takes over. It's so thick at times I'm afraid to graze there. This is a good hay field when we get our normal rain. Only a problem when in drought. I've reseeded 3 times since 2000 and we keep having dry years to set it back. Hope that changes this year. I've never seeded any clover in this field. The way it grows there I don't have to.

As to how clover gets spread? I've put clover seed in the mineral feeder and have gotten clover started in pure stands of fescue. Clover seed will pass through the cow just fine and come up in the manure piles. I drag the manure and that helps spread the seed. It's just a cheaper way of seeding clover but it works. So if your cows eat clover in another pasture or hay and it has seed in it and then you move those cows they will take some seed with them to the next field.

 

[dun]

I wonder if the soil is poorer in the spots where the clover is growing and it is more tolerent of the poor soil then other grasses

dun

 

[msscamp]

Why do you suppose that is?

Microclimates possibly?

 

[tytower]

Interesting post
First thought is clover is a legume so its fixing nitrogen with its roots .

Second thought ,imagine a huge round boulder say a mile round and say it is buried under there and just a little soil over the top. I wonder how that large mass might steady the temperature all around that surface soil?

The rock could be any shape ,wouldn't matter. Humidity would be affected too and drainage of water would follow a set path

Interesting stuff

 

[dun]

Second thought ,imagine a huge round boulder say a mile round and say it is buried under there and just a little soil over the top. I wonder how that large mass might steady the temperature all around that surface soil?

Interesting stuff

We have one rock that is roughly 1/4 miles by a half mile. The soil is anywhere from an inch to 18 inches. The micro climate doesn;t contribute to anything pertaining to temperature, i.e. it's no warmer or colder then and of the other stuff around here.
But, the water retention is miserable so that area and the others just like it, tend to be more droughty.

dun

 

[novatech]

Second thought ,imagine a huge round boulder say a mile round and say it is buried under there and just a little soil over the top. I wonder how that large mass might steady the temperature all around that surface soil?

Interesting stuff

We have one rock that is roughly 1/4 miles by a half mile. The soil is anywhere from an inch to 18 inches. The micro climate doesn;t contribute to anything pertaining to temperature, i.e. it's no warmer or colder then and of the other stuff around here.
But, the water retention is miserable so that area and the others just like it, tend to be more droughty.

dun

Sounds like a great place to feed out round bales in winter. Especially those 1 in. spots

 

[dun]

Sounds like a great place to feed out round bales in winter. Especially those 1 in. spots

The only catch that the whole farm is pretty much that way.

dun

 

[ALACOWMAN]

the county i live in is eat up with limestone rock but we have some of the most acidic pastures in the state. but crush that lime into powder and look out

 

[dun]

the county i live in is eat up with limestone rock but we have some of the most acidic pastures in the state. but crush that lime into powder and look out

We're on solid limestone but I still have to buy the stuff for the pasture