Cheap Feed

[aplusmnt]

We ended up with some poorer quality hay this year. Draught hit my regular hay guy pretty hard and I did not get in on his early hay.

Last year we did not feed any feed, pretty mild winter and some good Bermuda and Fescue hay did all we needed.

This year I might have to supplement some, any suggestions on a cheap ration to help some preg cows out. If I am going to feed I would rather use a grain ration than tubs or lick tank. Might as well capitalize on calling them up daily and checking herd at same time.

We have a couple close feed mills so most custom mixes would be possible.

 

[Diehard40]

have you looked into any of this ethanol by-product to feed your cows. We recently visited some feedlots in western KS and a lot of them are incorporating it into their rations.

 

[rk]

We ended up with some poorer quality hay this year. Draught hit my regular hay guy pretty hard and I did not get in on his early hay.

Last year we did not feed any feed, pretty mild winter and some good Bermuda and Fescue hay did all we needed.

This year I might have to supplement some, any suggestions on a cheap ration to help some preg cows out. If I am going to feed I would rather use a grain ration than tubs or lick tank. Might as well capitalize on calling them up daily and checking herd at same time.

We have a couple close feed mills so most custom mixes would be possible.

Lower quality hay/roughage will be better utilized with a high protein supplement, such as liquid feed, than with a grain ration. It'll stimulate fiber-digesting bacteria in the rumen and help them use that lower quality hay, while a grain ration will do the opposite.

 

[MikeC]

We ended up with some poorer quality hay this year. Draught hit my regular hay guy pretty hard and I did not get in on his early hay.

Last year we did not feed any feed, pretty mild winter and some good Bermuda and Fescue hay did all we needed.

This year I might have to supplement some, any suggestions on a cheap ration to help some preg cows out. If I am going to feed I would rather use a grain ration than tubs or lick tank. Might as well capitalize on calling them up daily and checking herd at same time.

We have a couple close feed mills so most custom mixes would be possible.

Lower quality hay/roughage will be better utilized with a high protein supplement, such as liquid feed, than with a grain ration. It'll stimulate fiber-digesting bacteria in the rumen and help them use that lower quality hay, while a grain ration will do the opposite.

I beg to differ. Usually the protein in the liquid feeds are urea based and are not a natural cattle feed. They are nitrogen that the cattle must convert to protein.

A cow needs 1.5 to 2 lbs of protein per day. 12.5 lbs of 14% feed will also give her the energy she needs plus provide the protein.

Vigortone makes a mineral/protein supplement that will supply her needs without her overeating it free choice. "Forage Pro"

 

[rk]

We ended up with some poorer quality hay this year. Draught hit my regular hay guy pretty hard and I did not get in on his early hay.

Last year we did not feed any feed, pretty mild winter and some good Bermuda and Fescue hay did all we needed.

This year I might have to supplement some, any suggestions on a cheap ration to help some preg cows out. If I am going to feed I would rather use a grain ration than tubs or lick tank. Might as well capitalize on calling them up daily and checking herd at same time.

We have a couple close feed mills so most custom mixes would be possible.

Lower quality hay/roughage will be better utilized with a high protein supplement, such as liquid feed, than with a grain ration. It'll stimulate fiber-digesting bacteria in the rumen and help them use that lower quality hay, while a grain ration will do the opposite.

I beg to differ. Usually the protein in the liquid feeds are urea based and are not a natural cattle feed. They are nitrogen that the cattle must convert to protein.

A cow needs 1.5 to 2 lbs of protein per day. 12.5 lbs of 14% feed will also give her the energy she needs plus provide the protein.

Vigortone makes a mineral/protein supplement that will supply her needs without her overeating it free choice. "Forage Pro"

Nitrogen is needed to feed the rumen bacteria. Liquid feed better and more cost-effective usually than tubs.

 

[MikeC]

Nitrogen is needed to feed the rumen bacteria. Liquid feed better and more cost-effective usually than tubs.

Agreed on the nitrogen part. But I had rather use a natural plant nitrogen rather than urea.

I agree on the tubs too. Some of the nutrients settle before the tub hardens, making the contents have different levels of nutrients in different levels of the tub.

 

[Scotty]

That high urea liquid feed will also cause a need for more forage. I agree with Mike a matural protein would be better. If you must use a cake I would say to stay below 20 %. I am using a ration that is 10%. It is flaked corn, peanut hule pelets, cotton seed and a protein supplement. 150 per ton sacked, or 125 bulk. 10% protein and 3% fat ration sounds good to me.

 

[dun]

If you want a natural liquid product look at Mix-30

dun

 

[rk]

That high urea liquid feed will also cause a need for more forage. I agree with Mike a matural protein would be better. If you must use a cake I would say to stay below 20 %. I am using a ration that is 10%. It is flaked corn, peanut hule pelets, cotton seed and a protein supplement. 150 per ton sacked, or 125 bulk. 10% protein and 3% fat ration sounds good to me.

It'll sure improve digestion of lower quality forage and cause them to eat more of it. Seems to me like that's good cuz it's usually the cheapest source of nutrients, if it's available.

 

[Howdyjabo]

Stick with the less starchy byproducts as the main ingredient and you can get past the forage digestion backlash of feeding too much grain. And they have higher protien levels to fuel the digestion of low quality forages.

Urea is fine up to a certain point-- the rumen of an adult animal can't tell the difference. But it can't be the main- let alone only -protien source without a drop in performance.
Stressed or young animals don't do as well with even small amounts of urea used as the protien source.But urea is definelty better than no extra protien when extra protien is needed

 

[aplusmnt]

Any suggestions on a ratio of say either

Cheapest products available

Corn
Corn Gluten

Higher priced Products available

Soybean meal
Oats
Cotton Seed hulls

 

[Howdyjabo]

I'm taking from your first post that you are not trying to stretch a hay shortage- you are just making up for poor quality.

In that case you might could just use the corn gluten feed alone.
Need to add some extra limestone to their diet somehow(i mix it into their minerals 25:75).
and you need to make sure that the pigs don't consume too much CGFeed - its really high in sulfer and you need them to be consuming mostly hay to buffer it.

Or a safer mix(especially for stretching a hay shortage) is a 50:50 mix of CGF and soybean hulls- with some extra limestone added to the diet somehow. the soybean hulls buffer the sulfer levels of CGF.

SBHulls can also be fed alone but some animals are very sensitive to it and will give problems with bloating.

Feeding SBMeal is difficult-- the cows need such a small amount that its hard to make sure each cow gets a little.
You can make your own free choice supplement by mixing 25% - 50% soybean meal(or corn Gluten meal) with the cows high salt level minerals(ie cheap minerals ).

There was a research paper a few years ago that concluded that protien supplementation(with very little starch product) only had to be given 2-3 times a week. so you could feed more at one time so ALL the cows had a good chance to get their fill.
CGFeed fits that bill .

I don't see any reason to pay more for your other options-

 

[Scotty]

That high urea liquid feed will also cause a need for more forage. I agree with Mike a matural protein would be better. If you must use a cake I would say to stay below 20 %. I am using a ration that is 10%. It is flaked corn, peanut hule pelets, cotton seed and a protein supplement. 150 per ton sacked, or 125 bulk. 10% protein and 3% fat ration sounds good to me.

It'll sure improve digestion of lower quality forage and cause them to eat more of it. Seems to me like that's good cuz it's usually the cheapest source of nutrients, if it's available.

Is it. How much do they digest and how much do they excreet. The brand that the local dealer has is from Westway Converters. Like 80% protein. They cannot digest all or the majority of that. So there is waste. IMO I cannot go just by $ per ton if the majority is excreted. Also you let the froage get low or them run out they will overeat bad. Looks like a bunch of starving kids eating candy.

 

[rk]

That high urea liquid feed will also cause a need for more forage. I agree with Mike a matural protein would be better. If you must use a cake I would say to stay below 20 %. I am using a ration that is 10%. It is flaked corn, peanut hule pelets, cotton seed and a protein supplement. 150 per ton sacked, or 125 bulk. 10% protein and 3% fat ration sounds good to me.

It'll sure improve digestion of lower quality forage and cause them to eat more of it. Seems to me like that's good cuz it's usually the cheapest source of nutrients, if it's available.

Is it. How much do they digest and how much do they excreet. The brand that the local dealer has is from Westway Converters. Like 80% protein. They cannot digest all or the majority of that. So there is waste. IMO I cannot go just by $ per ton if the majority is excreted. Also you let the froage get low or them run out they will overeat bad. Looks like a bunch of starving kids eating candy.

I was referring to the forage being the cheapest source of nutrients, if it's available. A good liquid feed (or other protein/nitrogen) will most certainly help cows utilize forage to a higher degree. The lower the quality of the forage, the more benefit from protein supplementation. A good liquid feed will be utilized relatively well, if it's managed correctly....it's a supplement, not a replacement, for forage.
I've never heard of a liquid feed 80% protein.

 

[Scotty]

Thats what the lable for crude protein says.

 

[rk]

Thats what the lable for crude protein says.

Wow. whereabouts is that dealer? Just curious, might recognize it.

 

[Jeanne - Simme Valley]

It may be cheaper & easier to just supplement with plain old fashion shell corn. 2 # per/hd/day will supply all the protein a cow needs (1.8#) I think that's right?
So if research is right about only having to feed 2-3 times a week, you can feed 5# every other day or so.
Unprossessed corn should be reasonable - you may have a farmer around that you can buy a pickup load from their bin.

 

[Howdyjabo]

So if research is right about only having to feed 2-3 times a week, you can feed 5# every other day or so.
Unprossessed corn should be reasonable - you may have a farmer around that you can buy a pickup load from their bin.[/quote]

Thats the idea....

but to be clear corn would NOT fit the bill for feeding every couple of days-- Its not a protien supplement(though it does have some) its a VERY starchy energy supplement.
Trying that with corn would REALLY mess the rumen up.

 

[Howdyjabo]

A VERY wet liquid could have an "as is" protien level of 10%
But its protien level "Dry matter" could be 80%

 

[Jeanne - Simme Valley]

So you would be looking at feeding each day if using whole corn.