Charolais Bull, What do you think

[Dusty]

Guys, I have this bull #6009, he is a 9/11/06 calf, pictured on 2/22/2007, his performance numbers are this BW/ratio 79/95 WW/ratio 931/135.7. He is out of a first calf heifer, I am not a photographer and these pictures don't show his mass, and true thickness.

His EPD's BW/WW/YW/M/TM and are as followed: 0.1 / 55 / 85 / 8 / 35 He is in the top 1% for Weaning Weight, Yearling Weight and Total Maternal. His Marbling is in the top 3% of the breed and UREA in top 5%.

Every sire in his papered pedigree, I repeat every sire is or has been a Charolais Trait Leader at one time. Every female in his papered pedigree has been a donor cow.

Tell me what you guys think, This is and could be... Well he could be the bomb! Top 5 % of the breed for all carcass traits, Breed Leading EPD's and a bull with proven performance.... Tell me what you think !! I know he his a calf, that is why i am asking......

 

[ollie?]

What age Dusty?

 

[ollie?]

Sorry, I reread the post. I personally think he's better on paper than phenotypically but he's pretty green. Do you know his current weight?

 

[Dusty]

He was born 9/11/06 so that would put him, guessing 170 days old!! He was weighted on 1/30/07 @ 140 days old and his Adj-ed Weaning Weight is 931lbs !!

 

[ollie?]

Looking again I kind of like him in the rubbing the chin pic. Don't take pics of them with their front feet in a hole by the mineral feeder. He actually looks pretty good in the chin rubbing pic. He's thick from behind. I'd like him a little deeper personally but he'd make a good terminal sire.

 

[Cattleman200]

Dusty, your bull looks good and has tremendous growth. I would like to see a few more pics of him. Not to be critical of him but he is missing a lot of hair on his back and neck. Would that be from lice or would it be possible for him to have proto? If its proto I doubt that he would ever be a semen seller. If its from lice... personally if I had a calf that growthy and good I would try to treat him for them so he would spend a little more time eating and not so much scratching. You never know... if he hadnt spent so much time rubbing he might have weighed another 50 pounds now. Either way, best of luck with him. Just my thoughts..

Circle H Ranch
http://www.chrlimousin.com

 

[KNERSIE]

from the photos it looks a good calf, but the angles make it hard to judge accurately.

Just one question... why not weigh him as close to 205 days as possible so the adjustment would be smaller and thus making his weaning weight more accurate. I know it will still be adjusted because of the age of his dam, but at 140 days it tell you probably more about the maternal quality of his dam than is own growthability. Off course without the potential to grow he would just have been milk fat.

 

[vs_cattle]

Looks Real Good On Paper & Looks Like A Nice Bull But Personaly I Think He Just Dosent Have The Total Package From A Look Stand Point Just Me

 

[warpaint]

The 3rd pic in the series is the only one that does him justice. Hard to form an opinion from that one.

 

[*Cowgirl*]

looks GREAT on paper. bad pics. has potential.

 

[MikeC]

I'll use him Dusty. Send me some semen.

He'd look awesome with some good photos. Get your "Field Rep" to come by and help you.

Please send me all the info you have on him in a PM. I'll send you my e-mail address if you'd like.

He's exciting! And you have every reason to be excited about him too!

 

[Badlands]

Is he lousy or are those rub-marks from the creep feeder?



Badlands

 

[skcatlman]

Just my opinin but i have been in the PB game for over 20 years. Treat for lice or he will never fulfill his geneteic potential for YW and you with be wasting money feeding lice. What is his real weaning (205) wt. The reason to weigh that early is to get a huge WW #. As far as proto not a disease in the chars, that is a limo problem. And although the photos could be better it shows that the structure is there and tells how green he is but what concerns me is the tiny scrotum. That shot quartering from behind show them. He has small scrotal circ. You can check it out in the Veterinary and Theriogenology journals at 6 months of age he will have 1/2 the mature scotal measure. Take a measure and tell me i'm wrong. He can have the best numbers and greatest pedigree on paper but if he has small nuts he should have his head cut off before he spreads that trait as S.C. is directly corrisponds to fertility. sorry to be blunt but breeding for numbers and papers is a joke. That is why there are breed requirements for S.C. @ certain ages

 

[Brandonm2]

I think yall are being too hard on him. He needs a better photographer and a cleaner pen; but other than that I am having a hard time seeing the criticisms. Obviously every young bull needs a Breeding Soundness Exam too check the scrotal circumference, the semen, and the plumbing; but I am willing too bet that he gets more than 30 cms at 205 days. If I was standing out there naked in the cold wind in February, I would look pretty inadequate there too. That's just basic anatomy. Run a bull thru a chute too measure SC DON'T eyeball it, especially from a picture. He is THICK, he is growthy, and he has a small head that will help on the calving ease. I like him.

 

[skcatlman]

Hey Bm2 all i am saying is measure the bull at 6 months. I hope he does have a huge scrotal, but i have seen alot of young bulls and he looks to me like he is going to be short. As far as being cold , look in the last pic you can see the cleft at the bottom of the scrotum and the curve on the side of the scrotum , look at the shape of the scrotum he is hanging them down. But like i said measure him and prove my eye wrong, As far as what he measure right now 30cm , i really doubt it i would say more in the 13 to 18 range. At this age if he measured 30 his mature numbers would be 55 to 60 cm not likely. So get a tape on him and we''ll see what he really is.

 

[Brandonm2]

Reread what I said.....I said I bet he measures "30 cms at 205 days" Granted I am throwing darts here and that might be an exaggeration, but he is only 159 days in the picture. I will freely admit that I have never put a tape on a bull THAT YOUNG. I think he is more than sufficient for a bull who has not reached puberty yet. He is young enough that he could still be a bust; but given how much bull is there now I like his potential.

 

[SKF Show Cattle]

LOVE HIM :heart: :heart:

 

[Dusty]

Guys, Thanks for the info... I am pretty excited about him, for those of you who say I am breeding numbers.. Shove it ! the reason his EPD's are so high is because his Mat Grand Sire and Sire have at one time been the Charolais breeds Multi-trait leader. The reason they were used together is for the carcass Genetics, followed by the Total Maternal ability of sires to produce daughters and overall capacity of his sire.

No Creep Guys, he is being raised in Kansas conditions with all the other first calf females and their calves.. He will not get special treatment until at least 265 plus days of age. The reason behind this is because if i treat him different he would be in his own contepairy group, all ratios would be 100 and I wouldn't be able to evaluate his REA, Marb, and performance ratio's ... Also the only reason i weighted him at 140 days old is because I wanted to know just how big he really was !! I will re-weigh him on his 205 to see how close he was, but 30 days ago he was over 640 lbs..

I know his nuts don't look huge there, but he is about 15-30 days ahead of the rest of the bulls in the group, the nuts have dropped and a great sac has developed and hang about 5 inches.... Havn't measured but i will when i pull him in at 205.. P>S> we played with his REA ultrasound when i weighted him, (Vet wanted to see how close we were to 1" per 100 wt..) he was over 8.7" @ 140 days and 6 weight. (now i can't use this due to his age but the majority of REA should grow between 5-10 months of age, he was about 4 months old!! )

P>S> I poured him today!! If you havn't seen the weather in Kansas, this winter we have had 30 days in the 10 deg with 30+ mph winds, that is after a dry summer in 06, and over 2 foot of snow in the last 60 days ....... He has been tried and tested to perform in harsh enviroments !! and the blizzard is coming this weekend good times

 

[Brandonm2]

No Creep Guys, he is being raised in Kansas conditions with all the other first calf females and their calves.. He will not get special treatment until at least 265 plus days of age. The reason behind this is because if i treat him different he would be in his own contepairy group, all ratios would be 100 and I wouldn't be able to evaluate his REA, Marb, and performance ratio's ... Also the only reason i weighted him at 140 days old is because I wanted to know just how big he really was !! I will re-weigh him on his 205 to see how close he was, but 30 days ago he was over 640 lbs..

I respect your ethics; BUT you probably won't have another like him for a while. I would just throw caution to the wind and start ramping him up NOW to see what his genetic potential really is....if that means I have to throw some mixed ration to his little buddys so my numbers are honest then SO BE IT.

 

[manaftergodsheart413]

I think he's a good looking bull and has all the tools to get better thats one bull I'd buy he has a tremendous build how much did he cost you