Cervical Tone

[Bright Raven]

I had a cow come into heat yesterday in the very early hours of the morning. I sometimes heat check before daylight with a powerful flashlight. Miss Mo was active in early estrus. I watched her all day. She had the estrus slime - clear mucus like fresh egg albumin. She was pursuing other cows and mounting cows. The other cows showed no interest in her. I bred her at 5 PM. That was 10 hours post beginning of estrus. Since I did not observe her standing and her chalk was not gone, I could not decide where she was in her cycle. Thus, I bred her again at 8 am this morning so one of those breedings should cover the egg.

I noticed her cervix was more compact and solid on the second breeding. I have seen this before. I have not seen an article that correlates cervical tone with where they are in the estrus cycle.

What are other folks experiences with cervical tone?

 

[bse]

I'm gonna guess the tone is different at different times with each cow, I do like tone a little better for breeding!! Did you give GnRh?

 

[Bright Raven]

I'm gonna guess the tone is different at different times with each cow, I do like tone a little better for breeding!! Did you give GnRh?

No. Let me ask you Barry.

Is there any drawbacks to giving GnRH at breeding, if not I am thinking of making that part of my routine?

 

[bse]

No drawbacks, if they need it to speed things up, it works, if not it's like a dose of water. $2 is cheap if it only helps 1 out of 20

 

[Bright Raven]

No drawbacks, if they need it to speed things up, it works, if not it's like a dose of water. $2 is cheap if it only helps 1 out of 20

Thanks. I am going to do that.

 

[Son of Butch]

When I worked on large dairy, protocol was up to 3 A.I. services per cow followed by clean up bull.
All 2nd service cows were given GNrH (Fertagyl) when inseminated.

I have noticed lower conception rates when cervix lacks firmness.
So I'm going to say cervix tone/firmness correlates with best time to breed.

 

[kdhansen]

Very interesting thread... thanks Bright Raven!

Limited AI here, small group of cows/heifers, 10-15/yr. Had two cows standing early AM, AI'd early evening. Nice, firm cervical tone on both... Wish they were all that easy to breed. Next morning, BOTH hussies are still jumping and standing. Ai'd both again that morning... not near as easy, not near as firm. Ovulation blood seen ~36 hours later.

Used Fertagyl on one a couple years ago, recommended by CT good guys, worked great on a cow that just didn't show standing heat, but showed inflammation and discharge... good stuff. Next time I tried it on another cow that would jump all the other cows, but none would jump her. She ended up with twins... been a little gun shy ever since. About ready to try it again, on second service?

 

[Bright Raven]

Very interesting thread... thanks Bright Raven!

Limited AI here, small group of cows/heifers, 10-15/yr. Had two cows standing early AM, AI'd early evening. Nice, firm cervical tone on both... Wish they were all that easy to breed. Next morning, BOTH hussies are still jumping and standing. Ai'd both again that morning... not near as easy, not near as firm. Ovulation blood seen ~36 hours later.

Used Fertagyl on one a couple years ago, recommended by CT good guys, worked great on a cow that just didn't show standing heat, but showed inflammation and discharge... good stuff. Next time I tried it on another cow that would jump all the other cows, but none would jump her. She ended up with twins... been a little gun shy ever since. About ready to try it again, on second service?

That has been my concern. GnRH will cause the mature follicle to release the egg. I have often pondered if it might cause less mature follicles to release a second or even third egg resulting in multiple births - not something I want. I have asked about that and have been told it is not likely. However, I had the same experience you did. I used it on a cow about 3 years ago and she had twins. She would not accept one and I had to tube it. I ended up selling it to a guy who had a cow that lost her calf. Calf did fine

 

[Son of Butch]

Very interesting thread... thanks Bright Raven!
Limited AI here....
Used Fertagyl on one a couple years ago, recommended by CT good guys, worked great on a cow that just didn't show standing heat, but showed inflammation and discharge... good stuff. Next time I tried it on another cow that would jump all the other cows, but none would jump her. She ended up with twins... been a little gun shy ever since. About ready to try it again, on second service?

IF conception on 1st service then no need for a 2nd service.
Gave on 2nd service in case late egg release was problem for not conceiving on first service.
If repeated to 3rd service assumed late release was not the problem.

All cows bred or open would be moved 120 days into lactation into the pen group where the bull was also kept.
After another 90-120 days those cows would be moved into the low production group pen.

IF GNrH did increase twinning rate (I don't know that it does) I'd still find it preferable to increased open cows.

 

[kdhansen]

SoB.. This was the first time this season I AI'd these two. If they didn't conceive, next service I will have the GNrH close by.

On the twinning rate... Coincidence, according to my vet at the time. I will always have my doubts. I don't mind twins AFTER they're up and going and cow takes them both...but, I'd rather not.

 

[wbvs58]

Ron, if I breed a cow pm and she is still showing oestrus the next morn and I breed againI find that the cervix will be a lot firmer. My take of it is the soft and flabby cervix is at full on standing oestrus just waiting to suck the semen in. The firmer tone is as they are going off and they are shutting the door, it is just that with AI we can get in as the door closes.

Ken

 

[Bright Raven]

Ron, if I breed a cow pm and she is still showing oestrus the next morn and I breed againI find that the cervix will be a lot firmer. My take of it is the soft and flabby cervix is at full on standing oestrus just waiting to suck the semen in. The firmer tone is as they are going off and they are shutting the door, it is just that with AI we can get in as the door closes.

Ken

That confirms my findings and that is a very good way to describe it.

 

[True Grit Farms]

Couldn't the cervix just be swollen from being handled and the gun being pushed - threaded through earlier?

 

[Bright Raven]

Couldn't the cervix just be swollen from being handled and the gun being pushed - threaded through earlier?

I would not think so. You don't handle the cervix that roughly and I never "push" the gun through. The gun slides through with light pressure. You may have to work past a troublesome cervical ring but it is not done by "pushing". The tissues of the cervix just become firm. Ken provided an ideal description.

 

[True Grit Farms]

Couldn't the cervix just be swollen from being handled and the gun being pushed - threaded through earlier?

I would not think so. You don't handle the cervix that roughly and I never "push" the gun through. The gun slides through with light pressure. You may have to work past a troublesome cervical ring but it is not done by "pushing". The tissues of the cervix just become firm. Ken provided an ideal description.

I agree with Ken's assessments, I was just throwing something out there. The cervix isn't use to someone grabbing it and feeling - manipulating it over a piece of metal. But you definitely push the gun through the cervix. The gun can't slide through if your not pushing, and as a matter of fact let go of the gun and it will fall out. I agree that slide and thread could be the same, but you can't thread the gun through the cervix without pushing either. I normally try to thread - slide the cervix through the gun while gently pushing forward.

 

[Bright Raven]

Couldn't the cervix just be swollen from being handled and the gun being pushed - threaded through earlier?

I would not think so. You don't handle the cervix that roughly and I never "push" the gun through. The gun slides through with light pressure. You may have to work past a troublesome cervical ring but it is not done by "pushing". The tissues of the cervix just become firm. Ken provided an ideal description.

I agree with Ken's assessments, I was just throwing something out there. The cervix isn't use to someone grabbing it and feeling - manipulating it over a piece of metal. But you definitely push the gun through the cervix. The gun can't slide through if your not pushing, and as a matter of fact let go of the gun and it will fall out. I agree that slide and thread could be the same, but you can't thread the gun through the cervix without pushing either. I normally try to thread - slide the cervix through the gun while gently pushing forward.

Agree. It requires some light forward pushing just not forceful.

 

[wbvs58]

I think the cervix can handle just about anything during oestrus. In natural service I think it gets a bit of a hammering. It also seems to be very resistant to contamination as I am sure the bull doesn't carry around paper towel to wipe it with first.

Ken

 

[Jeanne - Simme Valley]

I use Lute occasionally and I use GNRH at the time of breeding occasionally. I have a high percentage of twins, but have not correlated twins with the use of hormone shots. Twinning is generally more correlated with good nutrition (IMHO).

 

[T & B farms]

Another thing I’ve been told by a local who breeds thousands a year. He recommends giving a shot of gnrh with every breeding. (Same one that said absolutly no hicon lute) Even when doing heat detection. He said it may not be needed, but the only downfall is the extra 2$. I have doing this the last couple years. My thinking, if it causes even 1 more pregnancy it’s worth it. I did have 8 sets of twins this year, but most were from natural service. I agree with geanne, I think nutrition has a lot to do with it.

 

[Bright Raven]

Another thing I’ve been told by a local who breeds thousands of shot. He recommends giving a shot of gnrh with every breeding. (Same one that said absolutly no hicon lute) Even when doing heat detection. He said it may not be needed, but the only downfall is the extra 2$. I have doing this the last couple years. My thinking, if it causes even 1 more pregnancy it’s worth it. I did have 8 sets of twins this year, but most were from natural service. I agree with geanne, I think nutrition has a lot to do with it.

I have ask several embryologist about the possibility of multiple births when using GnRH at the time of service. They say it has no correlation with multiple births. I have been using it on the ones I think I might be a little early servicing.