cattle plan review

[poiu]

I have the time now to start a small herd of cattle and wanted to run this plan by you all if it is O.K.

I live in Manitoba Canada, I have the fence built, the barn done, chute and pens, also a vet on speed dial. I have had cattle for a number of years but only as a side thing. (8-14 cows and a bull.) I have 3 pastures on 330 Acers of land for rotational grazing. (took me some time but it is all well fenced now.) It is a mix of good pasture, rough pasture and some woods.

Here is my thinking. 23 cows ( Angus or Hereford not sure which is best with our winters and which will grazes the best on rough pasture when they have to? ) 1 bull as a terminal sire ( thinking Char or Lim ) Plan to get 20 calves to the sale each year. Prices are said to be back at the $1.80 or so mark by the end of the year for stockers.

$1.80lb x 500lb = $900.00
Total = $18000.00
minus $5000.00 for hay
minus $2000.00 taxes
minus $1000.00 vet bills
minus $1000.00 miscellaneous
Leaves me with $9000.00 in my pocket.

What kind of changes would you make if any? Also do you think Angus or Herefords would fit best into my plan?

Thank you all for your time.

 

[DoubleK]

Hello Poiu

Just curious, why the terminal sire?

What happens in 5 years?


Dub

 

[Alan]

As a novice, the big red flag I see if you are banking on 1.80/lb. Do the math at 1.20/lb.

$1.20lb x 500lb = $600.00
Total = $12000.00
Leaves you with $3000.

Not counting unforseen problems or mishaps. Plus do you think $1000 for vet bills and $1000 for misc. is enough? I don't know just asking.

Alan

 

[certherfbeef]

As a novice, the big red flag I see if you are banking on 1.80/lb. Do the math at 1.20/lb.

Good point Alan. I do my math for .70/lb. Gives me plenty of room to move.

 

[3MR]

1.80 ? Anybody willing to help me pack. Im relocating to Canada for a while.

I think you might be clos on the $1000 for the vet bills for the number of cattle you stated, if you do most of your doctoring yourself. Excluding major events.

I do think you are low on the misc though.

My real thought though is if you have been running 14 head you already know what your legitimate expenses are going to be if you have being keeping records. 23 or 25 isnt that many more.

 

[poiu]

As a novice, the big red flag I see if you are banking on 1.80/lb. Do the math at 1.20/lb.

$1.20lb x 500lb = $600.00
Total = $12000.00
Leaves you with $3000.

Not counting unforseen problems or mishaps. Plus do you think $1000 for vet bills and $1000 for misc. is enough? I don't know just asking.

Alan

1000.00 for vet and 1000.00 for misc. is not enough on some years but more then enough on most. Right now we are at $1.35 and that is low. With China and the US opening up it is said that we are going back to pre BSE prices ie. around $1.80lb. remember 3MR that is Canadian $.
Of course you all could be right and I need to plan on that not happening. If I go with prices as they are now

$1.35 x 500lb = $675
total of $13500.00
leaves me with $4500.00
In that case I will have to double the number of cows!
Maybe some of the Canadians on here can set me right if I am wrong on the sale prices pre BSE and now for stockers.

 

[poiu]

Hello Poiu

Just curious, why the terminal sire?

What happens in 5 years?


Dub

Cull the bad keep the good and buy replacements. Which means about every 5-8 years the profit for that year goes into buying cows.

 

[randiliana]

Right now we are at $1.35 and that is low. With China and the US opening up it is said that we are going back to pre BSE prices ie. around $1.80lb. remember 3MR that is Canadian $.
Of course you all could be right and I need to plan on that not happening. If I go with prices as they are now

$1.35 x 500lb = $675
total of $13500.00
leaves me with $4500.00
In that case I will have to double the number of cows!
Maybe some of the Canadians on here can set me right if I am wrong on the sale prices pre BSE and now for stockers.

I sure wouldn't bank on $1.80, even before BSE the prices weren't that good on 500# calves!! I'd just plan on what the prices are now, maybe even less, then anything extra is a bonus.

As for the breed, either Hereford or Angus would work for you, they are both pretty darn hardy. The terminal sire idea is a good enough one, but then you will need to buy your replacements. If I was planning on the terminal sire idea, either breed of bull would work well on the Herefords or Red Angus, but I would stay away from Char on the Black Angus, unless you know you won't be docked for the smokies in your area. Another suggestion would be to consider using Angus x Hereford cows and then outcrossing to your terminal sire, that way you would maximize the heterosis.

 

[S.R.R.]

Click on this link and then click Market.

http://www.hoardstnsalebarn.ca/

Sold 20 450lb steers @ $1.47lb yesterday. With the borders opening I would say you can count on at lest $1.50lb in your plan. $1.80lb was not uncomon for good large framed 400-450lb steers pre BSE but not for 500lb or over.

randiliana is right about the Char bull on black Angus watch out for those smokies.

 

[Cattle Rack Rancher]

Published: Monday, July 10, 2006
WINNIPEG (CP) - Fleshed cows were in good demand while overall trading is steady at the Winnipeg livestock market on Friday.

Total head count: 271

Slaughter cattle 100: Cows, dry fed $32-$38 per cwt; good fleshed $27-$31; lean $16.50-$25.50; good bulls $39.25-$46.50.

Feeder cattle 171:
Feeder cattle
800-900 lbs $100-$117 per cwt,
700-800 lbs $105-$116.50,
600-700 lbs $115-$124,
500-600 lbs $120-$129,
400-500 lbs $120-$126;
Heifers
700-800 lbs $100-$114.50,
600-700 lbs $105-$116.50,
500-600 lbs $110-$118,
400-500 lbs $114-$126.

I calve between 20-25 head a year depending on the year in Manitoba. I'm pretty sure I've never made anywhere close to $9000 even on a good year. I usually figure on an average of about $1.20 a lb when I'm trying to figure it out. Remember, these prices are for 'good' calves. I always seem to have a couple that maybe aren't as 'good' as what is needed to fetch that price. As near as I can tell, its not really so much a money making venture as a hobby. Good Luck.

 

[3MR]

I tend to have an optemistic outlook as well so I know exactly where you are coming from. As long as you dont bank on it I dont see a problem. If you are counting on making that or will be dissapointed if you dont, then you need to relook at youe books.

I never make as much as I anticipated. I have my outlook and my brake even point. As long as I surpass my break even I am good. The outlook, which is always very optimistic sure make all the work easir while I am doing it.

 

[poiu]

I tend to have an optemistic outlook as well so I know exactly where you are coming from. As long as you dont bank on it I dont see a problem. If you are counting on making that or will be dissapointed if you dont, then you need to relook at youe books.

I never make as much as I anticipated. I have my outlook and my brake even point. As long as I surpass my break even I am good. The outlook, which is always very optimistic sure make all the work easir while I am doing it.

Good points.

 

[S.R.R.]

Published: Monday, July 10, 2006
WINNIPEG (CP) - Fleshed cows were in good demand while overall trading is steady at the Winnipeg livestock market on Friday.

Total head count: 271

Slaughter cattle 100: Cows, dry fed $32-$38 per cwt; good fleshed $27-$31; lean $16.50-$25.50; good bulls $39.25-$46.50.

Feeder cattle 171:
Feeder cattle
800-900 lbs $100-$117 per cwt,
700-800 lbs $105-$116.50,
600-700 lbs $115-$124,
500-600 lbs $120-$129,
400-500 lbs $120-$126;
Heifers
700-800 lbs $100-$114.50,
600-700 lbs $105-$116.50,
500-600 lbs $110-$118,
400-500 lbs $114-$126.

I calve between 20-25 head a year depending on the year in Manitoba. I'm pretty sure I've never made anywhere close to $9000 even on a good year. I usually figure on an average of about $1.20 a lb when I'm trying to figure it out. Remember, these prices are for 'good' calves. I always seem to have a couple that maybe aren't as 'good' as what is needed to fetch that price. As near as I can tell, its not really so much a money making venture as a hobby. Good Luck.

Wow! It looks like we are getting better prices here in Ont.
http://www.cattle.guelph.on.ca/markets/ ... n_tues.asp

 

[poiu]

Thank you all for your responces. SRR I took a look at some historical data and it looks like prices are slighter better in Ontario most of the time compared to Manitoba :? I wonder why? Cattle Rack Rancher I am glad you posted since you are in my area. I am going to have to rethink my numbers and maybe double the # of cows. I know my 8-14 have not even come close to useing all my pasture but I am not sure how 40 head would do on 330ac. I guess the only way to find out would be to try it eh?
Thanks agian for the imput.

 

[Bez?]

Thank you all for your responces. SRR I took a look at some historical data and it looks like prices are slighter better in Ontario most of the time compared to Manitoba :? I wonder why? Cattle Rack Rancher I am glad you posted since you are in my area. I am going to have to rethink my numbers and maybe double the # of cows. I know my 8-14 have not even come close to useing all my pasture but I am not sure how 40 head would do on 330ac. I guess the only way to find out would be to try it eh?
Thanks agian for the imput.

Do your math at 85 cents - then plan on things going bad once in a while.

Prices in Ontario?

Remember, the price for all those animals is not that high price you might see. That is a one off. Lots of animals are going for less.

About to be a possibility with all of the new BSE being reported.

Sale barn prices for steers run in the "under a buck - to about a buck five" on average.

You want the bigger prices you better have a pot load and they better be perfect - or else you go out with the bath water.

If you want to ship to Ontario - you better have the big bucks - fuel is a killer.

Final note - it is rare to see profit of more than 100 bucks per head - the latest numbers being kicked around by the various cattlemens groups seems to be in the 75 buck per head range. May be different for some and my be the same for others. But rest assured, you will not get to where your calculations are.

If you make 200 bucks per head, you wil see somewhere in the area of 5 grand.

How many here on the boards - from Canuck land doing this.

Please raise your hands - I want you to be my mentor.

I have been in the game for some time - I never made that much money on so few head.

Have fun.

Bez?

 

[SPRINGER FARMS MURRAY GRE]

What kind of changes would you make if any?

Sounds like a plan....only change I would make is the breed of cattle.Check around there close and you can probably find some good Murray Grey cattle! ;-) :cboy:

 

[S.R.R.]

[

Do your math at 85 cents - then plan on things going bad once in a while.

Sale barn prices for steers run in the "under a buck - to about a buck five" on average.

Bez?

Not to sure were you are coming from Bez with those prices. :?
Click on this link and then click Market.

http://www.hoardstnsalebarn.ca/

Sold 20 450lb steers @ $1.47lb yesterday and they were not the best steers there. In the 400lb to 600lb stocker steers the worst crap went for $1.12 and they went as high as $1.65 for the top steers.

 

[Bez?]

[

Do your math at 85 cents - then plan on things going bad once in a while.

Sale barn prices for steers run in the "under a buck - to about a buck five" on average.

Bez?

Not to sure were you are coming from Bez with those prices. :?
Click on this link and then click Market.

http://www.hoardstnsalebarn.ca/

Sold 20 450lb steers @ $1.47lb yesterday and they were not the best steers there. In the 400lb to 600lb stocker steers the worst crap went for $1.12 and they went as high as $1.65 for the top steers.

I am running at different weights.

Brussels 1000 pounders - dollar / dollar six

Ontario replacement trades - heavy weights under a buck.

http://cattle.guelph.on.ca/markets/dail ... 060714.pdf

Did not figure light weights. Apologies - not thinking straight tonight I guess.

I mention do the planning at 85 cents because you now have some slush to play with. And if the market goes down then you have the numbers bang on. Never ever do your long range planning on "today's" numbers. Surest road to trouble.

Plan for disaster and work for success - keeps you out of the poor house.

Bez?

 

[S.R.R.]

[

Plan for disaster and work for success - keeps you out of the poor house.

Bez?

Yes I agree! :cboy: