cattle dog training

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Carrie

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Good evening all,
Does anyone have any experience with cattle dog training? We have a wonderful Border Collie named Flip that we've been working with. He is so smart and does a great job with the cattle except if they get to running when he's bringing them in. Then he falls apart and wants to go around and try to head them off. Any ideas on how to convince/train him to stay behind. He does just fine when they're coming in slow, but let one of them get in a hurry to eat, then....well. He's not quite 2 yet. Could this just be a maturity thing? He does very well with all other commands, just seems to get over-excited and exibits a selective hearing loss in this type of situation. Any ideas???

Thanks,
 

Campground Cattle

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Carrie":3vmgl9fi said:
Good evening all,
Does anyone have any experience with cattle dog training? We have a wonderful Border Collie named Flip that we've been working with. He is so smart and does a great job with the cattle except if they get to running when he's bringing them in. Then he falls apart and wants to go around and try to head them off. Any ideas on how to convince/train him to stay behind. He does just fine when they're coming in slow, but let one of them get in a hurry to eat, then....well. He's not quite 2 yet. Could this just be a maturity thing? He does very well with all other commands, just seems to get over-excited and exibits a selective hearing loss in this type of situation. Any ideas???

Thanks,

I use a bordie collie lots of questions to be answered., as far as heading off the cows thats what untrained Collies do. They want to keep the cattle in a bunch. Be careful don't let a young dog get hurt you will ruin him. Its better to train in a cow pen with young calves or goats he needs to win everytime when he's young. When he doesn't follow commands shut him down work him on a long rope he has to learn to always take commands. Male dogs tend to be more hard headed might have to use a shock collar. You would be money ahead to send him to school, fellow in Hunigton Tx that is a great trainer and reasonable. Has dogs that work in the nationals.
 

Linda

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Carrie":3g4apsk8 said:
Good evening all,
Does anyone have any experience with cattle dog training? We have a wonderful Border Collie named Flip that we've been working with. He is so smart and does a great job with the cattle except if they get to running when he's bringing them in. Then he falls apart and wants to go around and try to head them off. Any ideas on how to convince/train him to stay behind. He does just fine when they're coming in slow, but let one of them get in a hurry to eat, then....well. He's not quite 2 yet. Could this just be a maturity thing? He does very well with all other commands, just seems to get over-excited and exibits a selective hearing loss in this type of situation. Any ideas???

Thanks,

Carrie, I've not trained a Border Collie - only our ACD's - and they work entirely differently. I don't think I'd use a shock collar on a BC - it just might discourage the dog from ever working again.

It sounds like your dog is bringing the cattle to you. Is that correct?

My dog drives cattle away from me. He only goes to the head if a bull challenges him, then he nips at the nose to get the bull's attention, and then stays at the heel or flank. He was run over by a bull when he was about 6 months old. I wasn't working him on cattle at that age - this was just a fluke, but the dog came up fighting mad and has lived to work bulls ever since. Our female ACD heads, so working cows with both dogs at once doesn't get us anywhere except in a circle. :D

My first thought is to back off to smaller livestock, where the pressure isn't so great and you can work in closer quarters with more control. There are some great websites online with good training info. I think Ranchdogs is one. From what I've read, many trainers start their BC pups on ducks, then graduate to sheep. Cattle are a whole different ballgame and are much harder to work a young dog on. When he's reliable with sheep, you'll be able to start him on cattle.

They say the very most important thing to teach a herding dog is the "down." Without an immediate and reliable down you have no control whatsoever. Come to think of it, I'd go back to basics and work on commands without livestock around, then start as I suggested above & work up through more controlled situations.

My ACD is four and is just now becoming reliable as far as following commands when things get exciting in a pasture. He drives them away from me and I can work with that. He decided it was dangerous for a bull to be within 30 feet of me when he was just a young dog and we just learned to work together. He's always been good about following commands and watched my body language more than anything, but it's nice to have him maturing into a less excitable dog. My ACD doesn't have a good down, but wants more than anything to stay close to me and will return to me on command or freeze and wait until I give him permission to continue.
 
A

Anonymous

What is ACD mean? This is very interesting. What other dogs would you recommend for cattle herding and why?
 

MM

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I've never trained a BC, but I have trained a few bird dogs. The only thing I can add is be very careful if you decide to go the shock collar route. Be sure YOU learn how to use it before you strap it to your dog. You can ruin a dog easily with one if you hit him too much, at the wrong time. You also have to know how to command and re-enforce correctly. Also, if you don't do it right, he'll never listen unless you have that collar on him.
 

hillbilly

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The way I train my dog is this:

1. If you chase cattle once, I kick you till I can't kick no more.

2. Chase cattle twice, I shoot you in the butt with a .22

3. Ever chase cattle again and I shoot you in the head, period.

4. Any other dog but mine, skip to #3 first time.

Hillbilly
 
A

Anonymous

Thanks Linda, Camp, MG and everyone else. He never seems to have this problem on the fetch, just when we are driving from behind. It's like he gets confused as to which way he should be going. Can you teach a cattle dog to both fetch and drive? In thinking about the sheep dog trials I've been to, I don't recall seeing both the handler and the dog behind the herd driving it forward. Can this be done or is it too confusing for the dog? Maybe I'm the one that needs more training!
 

cherokeeruby

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What do these dogs cost. What does it cost to keep the dogs? Are they deductible as a farming expense?

What is dog cost per cow or calf raised?
 

txag

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cherokeeruby":33y6xoei said:
What do these dogs cost. What does it cost to keep the dogs? Are they deductible as a farming expense?

What is dog cost per cow or calf raised?

cost depends on breed, amount of training, bloodlines, etc. you can buy some good heeler pups for as little as $50 but some good, trained dogs can go up to a thousand or so.

yes, they can be deductible.
 

Campground Cattle

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cherokeeruby":11kbocts said:
What do these dogs cost. What does it cost to keep the dogs? Are they deductible as a farming expense?

What is dog cost per cow or calf raised?

Txag is right on being deductible, the dogs are not free to keep up either that is also deductible. I piad 600 dollars for Lucy(Bordie Collie) as a puppy, her Dad is a 10,000 dollar dog that has won the nationals. Now Lucy was a year old and had been in training for a few months. The breeder brought here Dad down and we dog broke the cows so as a young dog she could win.
 

dun

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Anonymous":3b177bpt said:
Thanks Linda, Camp, MG and everyone else. He never seems to have this problem on the fetch, just when we are driving from behind. It's like he gets confused as to which way he should be going. Can you teach a cattle dog to both fetch and drive? In thinking about the sheep dog trials I've been to, I don't recall seeing both the handler and the dog behind the herd driving it forward. Can this be done or is it too confusing for the dog? Maybe I'm the one that needs more training!

I was told a long time ago by people that used working dogs extensively that there are "to you breeds" and "from you breeds". BC's were classified as to you, heelers were claissified as from you.

dun
 

Campground Cattle

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dun":2m67huqc said:
Anonymous":2m67huqc said:
Thanks Linda, Camp, MG and everyone else. He never seems to have this problem on the fetch, just when we are driving from behind. It's like he gets confused as to which way he should be going. Can you teach a cattle dog to both fetch and drive? In thinking about the sheep dog trials I've been to, I don't recall seeing both the handler and the dog behind the herd driving it forward. Can this be done or is it too confusing for the dog? Maybe I'm the one that needs more training!

I was told a long time ago by people that used working dogs extensively that there are "to you breeds" and "from you breeds". BC's were classified as to you, heelers were claissified as from you.

dun

Correct on the BC's want to bring the livestock to you.
 

DRB

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Carrie,
contact Ben Means at [email protected]..he has an excelent video for training dogs...or log on to cowdogs.com for a list of trainers..I have a 7 month old bitch she is one of the pleasures of my life...She is a real tough cookie when herding lawn mowers or tractors, but a 1200 lb mama will bluff her in a minute!!!
 

PASS

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I have a ACD (Blue Healer). She is hardheaded but does do what she was bread to do. I read on some web site that the ACD was bread to be a companion dog thus the nick name 'velcro dogs'. Mine won't leave my side for anything. This web site also indicated the dogs were to be agressive in getting cattle out of the brush, my dog will do that as well but she is no use at all when the cows are pinned up. I have to pin her up once the cows are in my small trap. I have read much about the Australian Shepard. They move the cows by barking unlike the Healer biting the ankles of the cows. Check this web site out for a trainer:
http://www.beretfarms.com/our_australia ... d_dogs.htm

I really need a dog that will help me in the pins and next time i will try one of these Australian Shepherds.
 

txag

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heelers are my pick because i do like the aggressiveness. i also like the short hair. we have a border collie who is much harder to train because she's pretty submissive & whenever you raise your voice, she cowers & won't do anything except lay down if she thinks you're angry.

just a word of caution about heelers, though. they're sometimes not only aggressive with cattle.......mine never liked strangers or kids (except mine) and any wild animals coming on the place don't stand a chance. she's eleven years old & hardly has any good teeth left but had a possum cornered this morning & gave it a good workover. i finally got the .410 to help her out.
 

Craig-TX

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We have a heeler that's going on 13. She is stove up most of the time and can't hardly load any more. But she will still fight a circle saw when it comes to varmints. The only complaint I've ever had about her is that she is scared to death of thunder and is very gun shy. I never have been able to figure out why. I love that dog and will in fact shed tears when she dies, and I won't apologize for it to anybody.

Craig-TX
 

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