Castration

[sewall]

I was just wondering what the purpose of castrating is. What are the advantages of doing it? My dad said we need to start banding our calves when they drop but I didn't know if it was worth the time and money. I heard it just depends on what sells better at the salebarn. I live in Hill county does anyone know what I need to do.

 

[msscamp]

I was just wondering what the purpose of castrating is. What are the advantages of doing it?

The primary purpose of castration is to prevent substandard bulls from breeding heifers/cows. The advantages (aside from the one already stated) are 1) steers tend to be less interested in busting out of corrals/pastures/pens to breed females, 2) steers tend to be less interested in fighting so gain weight better, 3) there is no testosterone floating throughout the body, so more docile/calmer behavior, 4) depending on your area, no dock at the salebarn, and 5) feedlots generally like steers better than bulls(at least in this area). I'm not sure I would castrate at birth, because testosterone does have some fairly major advantages when it comes to weight gain(although implanting will help offset this, to some degree. I don't know to what degree, because we never implanted - it just didn't fit with our operation) - we usually castrated at branding, so the calves were anywhere from a few weeks to 2 months old - anything less than apprx 2 weeks old was not branded at that time.

 

[cattleluvr18]

does anyone know what I need to do.

uh, you need to casterate them. msscamp told you pretty much why.

 

[Keren]

does anyone know what I need to do.

uh, you need to casterate them. msscamp told you pretty much why.

Well not necessarily. If you can find a market that will buy young bulls for slaughter without discounting them, and that market is relatively consistent, then a person may make the choice not to castrate - saving costs in labour, time and materials. However, in this situation, a person would need to separate the bull calves from heifers around about 4 months (different according to breed, obviously, but this is when ours generally begin to cycle) so that nothing gets unintentionally bred. This may be before or after weaning, again depending on the breed. It can be a pain if you have to do it before weaning, but its a little more manageable if it comes after weaning. In this situation the producer would also need to ensure good facilities, to deal with a mob of young bulls.

The normal practice is to castrate, with the reasons as msscamp said. I just thought I would give you a different view, to show that not all operations require routine castration.

 

[CattleHand]

Typically castrated bull calves sell better. Lately where we are at the different has narrowed but if you have the time, its worth it. Though banding may not also be the best, look into just straight out cutting them.

 

[backhoeboogie]

My dad said we need to start banding our calves when they drop

I agree with your Dad. Works great for me.

 

[Conagher]

Sewall,

Good question and I applaud you for asking "why" versus accepting the status quo. My suggestion would be for you to do your own research and come to your own conclusion. I think you may find some emotion around this topic because of its historical tradition - my (dad, granddad, mentor, old rancher down the road, ___ fill in the blank) did it this way.

Here's my conclusion from the research I have done:

For the typical cow/calf producer: No Value. 2005 article by G. Bretschneider from Unv. of Nebraska: "ADG of bulls increase up to 19% than that of steers". Though I have seen some studies suggesting bulls get docked; no where have I been able to find the % docked approach anywhere near this type weight gain difference. Also, the producer assume the cost of labor, medication, risk of loss, etc. Lose 1 of 100 calves to blood poisoning or some other complication and any premimum for a steer quickly disappears.

Packer: Value. a study from Roman L. Hruska U.S. Meat Animal Research Center, ARS, USDA, Clay Center, NE and several others concluded the marbeling is better and higher grading. Thus, the packer can charge more for his product but assumes none of the above risk and expense the producer does.

Consumer: No Value. The same study above from Clay Center concluded, "Meat from bulls had higher (P < .05) shear force values than meat from steers; however, sensory panelists were unable (P > .05) to detect differences in tenderness or other sensory traits between bulls and steers". Thus, the consumer pays more for a product that they cannot detect any difference in and thus their eating experience is the same.

I think PB breeders on the other hand have a different incentive in improving the breed. Also, please note nowhere do I suggest the breeding of inferior bulls. The above conclusion is for a typical cow/calf producer that sells their calves at weaning.

Again, this is only my opinion base on the research I have been able to optain. I suggest you research for yourself.

Good Luck.

 

[BC]

You got the reasons for doing it. Should you? It depends. It depends on where you sell, how big the calves are and what time of year. Some markets have more steers and therefore dock bull calves. If you sell at over 450 lbs then there are some discounts especially in August through October. Some order buyers have specific orders for steers only. You limit the buying power when you have bulls. One other thought, I sometimes buy cutting bulls to steer and turn out. I buy them because they are cheap and I figure the upgrading as my profit.

 

[novatech]

Sewall,

Good question and I applaud you for asking "why" versus accepting the status quo. My suggestion would be for you to do your own research and come to your own conclusion. I think you may find some emotion around this topic because of its historical tradition - my (dad, granddad, mentor, old rancher down the road, ___ fill in the blank) did it this way.

Here's my conclusion from the research I have done:

For the typical cow/calf producer: No Value. 2005 article by G. Bretschneider from Unv. of Nebraska: "ADG of bulls increase up to 19% than that of steers". Though I have seen some studies suggesting bulls get docked; no where have I been able to find the % docked approach anywhere near this type weight gain difference. Also, the producer assume the cost of labor, medication, risk of loss, etc. Lose 1 of 100 calves to blood poisoning or some other complication and any premimum for a steer quickly disappears.

Packer: Value. a study from Roman L. Hruska U.S. Meat Animal Research Center, ARS, USDA, Clay Center, NE and several others concluded the marbeling is better and higher grading. Thus, the packer can charge more for his product but assumes none of the above risk and expense the producer does.

Consumer: No Value. The same study above from Clay Center concluded, "Meat from bulls had higher (P < .05) shear force values than meat from steers; however, sensory panelists were unable (P > .05) to detect differences in tenderness or other sensory traits between bulls and steers". Thus, the consumer pays more for a product that they cannot detect any difference in and thus their eating experience is the same.

I think PB breeders on the other hand have a different incentive in improving the breed. Also, please note nowhere do I suggest the breeding of inferior bulls. The above conclusion is for a typical cow/calf producer that sells their calves at weaning.

Again, this is only my opinion base on the research I have been able to optain. I suggest you research for yourself.

Good Luck.

Good info. Thanks A fresh perspective is always welcome.

 

[AngusLimoX]

Sewall,

Good question and I applaud you for asking "why" versus accepting the status quo. My suggestion would be for you to do your own research and come to your own conclusion. I think you may find some emotion around this topic because of its historical tradition - my (dad, granddad, mentor, old rancher down the road, ___ fill in the blank) did it this way.

Here's my conclusion from the research I have done:

For the typical cow/calf producer: No Value. 2005 article by G. Bretschneider from Unv. of Nebraska: "ADG of bulls increase up to 19% than that of steers". Though I have seen some studies suggesting bulls get docked; no where have I been able to find the % docked approach anywhere near this type weight gain difference. Also, the producer assume the cost of labor, medication, risk of loss, etc. Lose 1 of 100 calves to blood poisoning or some other complication and any premimum for a steer quickly disappears.

Packer: Value. a study from Roman L. Hruska U.S. Meat Animal Research Center, ARS, USDA, Clay Center, NE and several others concluded the marbeling is better and higher grading. Thus, the packer can charge more for his product but assumes none of the above risk and expense the producer does.

Consumer: No Value. The same study above from Clay Center concluded, "Meat from bulls had higher (P < .05) shear force values than meat from steers; however, sensory panelists were unable (P > .05) to detect differences in tenderness or other sensory traits between bulls and steers". Thus, the consumer pays more for a product that they cannot detect any difference in and thus their eating experience is the same.

I think PB breeders on the other hand have a different incentive in improving the breed. Also, please note nowhere do I suggest the breeding of inferior bulls. The above conclusion is for a typical cow/calf producer that sells their calves at weaning.

Again, this is only my opinion base on the research I have been able to optain. I suggest you research for yourself.

Good Luck.

Where does the feeder fit in here? I wouldn't bid on bulls - if the cow/calf guy isn't interested in preparing calves for sale then I won't bid on them. Period. ( OK maybe not period, but with a heavy discount :lol: ).The feeder part of what I do isn't set up for calves like that.
Interesting post though Conagher.

I band soon after birth, not usually the first day, but day 2 and on. My vet recommends it as well and it fits into the BQA side of things.
ALX

 

[Moocow11]

i can gurantee you that steers sell better. i can go to the sale barn(every friday) and watch the cattle sale. one perosn can bring a 10 steers and 10 bulls. all same breed, same weight,same quality. and then steers will sell for 1.10 and the bulls will .97 a pound. we but the bull calves band them, cut them down the middle, give them 20-30 cc's of penicillan and put them in the dry lot and then 1 weeks later cut the sack and testeis off and they are good to go

 

[Moocow11]

i can gurantee you that steers sell better. i can go to the sale barn(every friday) and watch the cattle sale. one perosn can bring a 10 steers and 10 bulls. all same breed, same weight,same quality. and then steers will sell for 1.10 and the bulls will .97 a pound. we but the bull calves band them, cut them down the middle, give them 20-30 cc's of penicillan and put them in the dry lot and then 1 weeks later cut the sack and testeis off and they are good to go

 

[Bama]

depends on where you are, some places don't see a discount.

 

[cowgirl Ibara]

a calf that is cut will have better meat. The meat wont get tough and the marbling will be better since steers tend to build more fat then muscle like a bull would. Also its temperment wouldnt be as bad as a bull full fledged on testosterone would be.

 

[sewall]

When you do band them, is a vaccination of some sort needed.

 

[msscamp]

When you do band them, is a vaccination of some sort needed.

That depends on your area, the age of the calves, your decision as to whether to vaccinate or not, and your set-up. Tetanus lives in the soil so, if your calves are in a dry-lot environment, it would be advisable to vaccinate for it when banding. Our's weren't, so we didn't vaccinate for tetanus if the calves were young (that was our choice, not a recommendation for you. Talk it over with your vet and then decide), but we always vaccinated if they were older calves being banded because they didn't make the grade for being bulls.

 

[somn]

depends on where you are, some places don't see a discount.

95% of tha sales I go to you will see a $10 to $15 discount for bulls vs. steers on the same size calves. The 95% of sale barns that discount are large barns with order buyers or feedlot buyers on special calf sale days who know right down to the penny how much buying bulls actually will hurt their bottom line. The 5% of the barns that do not discount are smaller sale barns running fewer head selling to people wanting to buy something to keep the grass down and then later butcher for themselves. It is the buyer that sets the discount value if the buyer doesn't know enough to see the loss of profit he will not discount for it. It is always amazing to me to watch how badly bulls are discounted yet cow calf men continue to sell them as bulls instead of cutting them. What they stand to gain far outweighs the costs associated with making steers out of them. I say cut them young when it is less stressful on them and put the profit in your pocket not mine.

 

[Susie David]

We band...no muss, no fuss...two in hand, release the band.
Don't give tetanus, skin isn't breached.
As soon as you can get the job done the easier it is. We wait until day two or three....have waited longer but it is harder to catch the calf.
Just my two bits worth....asked for or not....Dmc

 

[Bama]

depends on where you are, some places don't see a discount.

95% of tha sales I go to you will see a $10 to $15 discount for bulls vs. steers on the same size calves. The 95% of sale barns that discount are large barns with order buyers or feedlot buyers on special calf sale days who know right down to the penny how much buying bulls actually will hurt their bottom line. The 5% of the barns that do not discount are smaller sale barns running fewer head selling to people wanting to buy something to keep the grass down and then later butcher for themselves. It is the buyer that sets the discount value if the buyer doesn't know enough to see the loss of profit he will not discount for it. It is always amazing to me to watch how badly bulls are discounted yet cow calf men continue to sell them as bulls instead of cutting them. What they stand to gain far outweighs the costs associated with making steers out of them. I say cut them young when it is less stressful on them and put the profit in your pocket not mine.

its a long way from MN. to Al. things don't work the same all over the country. Things don't work the same even across the state of Al. Differant areas discount for differant things. Guess what a cow with a lot of ear will do in your area compaired to mine. It also depends on the type and breed of bull whether you get a discount or not either.

 

[backhoeboogie]

Guess what a cow with a lot of ear will do in your area compaired to mine.

:lol: Funny thing is, when I am looking for cows, she'd better have some ear or I don't bid. Selling steers is just the opposite.