Capacity/Efficiency

[ALACOWMAN]

Out of curiousity, anyone ever noticed cows tend to get a wider, deeper barrel as they age? would that mean older cows are generally more efficient than younger cows?
And along the lines of what EC said about cows gaining capacity because of the environment they live in... dun mentioned once that it's best to raise cattle in the environment they're expected to perform in. Could one raise some big-barreled easy keeping cows just because of how they're raised? if so, should we be raising replacements differently? also, can we force mature cows to conform to an environment by different management, and if so, how long would it take and would there be a maximum age where cows can be "modified"?

So from what Harley and Jeanne are saying, a big-barreled cow may not eat less than a "gutless wonder", but the big-barreled cow can survive on much lower quality feed than the gutless wonder can, and on high quality feed, the big barreled cow will gain faster and do better than the gutless wonder because she has an easier time getting the nutrition she needs? like how lightweight/bottle calves need grain because their rumen isn't big enough to get all the protein they need from hay, whereas larger calves can get what they need from hay and won't be potbellied? is potbellied even a terrible thing then, or can it be useful in moderation?

I'm just thinking 'on paper' tonight. Very interesting idea, nova.

I won't be taking any nutrition classes until next fall at the earliest, so all I can do right now is ask questions. :lol2:

I always attribute>SOME< of that too the' "brood cow look" ... like the once athletic mare.. thats been put out too pasture too become a brood mare . eventually big belly and muscle atrophy

 

[Limomike]

I may have to but here up and put her on a diet of P poor hay. Should have done it a month ago.

A more practical way to do this is to let the calf suckle for longer only weaning him 2 months before the cow is due again. You can wean at any time if the cow's condition drops below your cut off point. You not only win because the cow don't get overfit, but also in the added pounds of calf weaned.

Good point Knersie. Most of my beefmaster cows are definitely high capacity category, but never seem to get any lower than a 5 on the BCS range with a calf. Never had one get too fat, but then again, I dont feed them any grain; just mainly grass.

 

[Jeanne - Simme Valley]

I want to point out that a "pop-belly" is different than capacity.
I always tell people that they should be able to picture a 55-gal drum inside their cows, if they want efficient, easy keeping cows. Not sure if science backs me up, just know what my cows need to be like to survive grass in summer & hay in winter - no grain diet.
You can "add" some capacity to cattle, but very little. The farm in Montana with easy keeping, large capacity cows, got them that way, because the gutless wonders got culled because they couldn't perform under their environmental conditions.
So, if I see a herd of gutless wonders, I fugure they are welfare cows (supplimented with grain) or a poor performing herd. In the "real world" of cattle, gutless wonders fade away.

 

[Frankie]

I want to point out that a "pop-belly" is different than capacity.
I always tell people that they should be able to picture a 55-gal drum inside their cows, if they want efficient, easy keeping cows. Not sure if science backs me up, just know what my cows need to be like to survive grass in summer & hay in winter - no grain diet.
You can "add" some capacity to cattle, but very little. The farm in Montana with easy keeping, large capacity cows, got them that way, because the gutless wonders got culled because they couldn't perform under their environmental conditions.
So, if I see a herd of gutless wonders, I fugure they are welfare cows (supplimented with grain) or a poor performing herd. In the "real world" of cattle, gutless wonders fade away.

Don't your cattle get some oats?

 

[Jeanne - Simme Valley]

Frankie, no - no oats. My weaned calves get shell corn with a protein pellet in it thru the winter. Our winters are a bit severe and we believe in growing our replacements out. But, once they are bred, they are turned out on grass. That's what they live on in the summer & hay in winter. We do seperate the young bred cattle from the mature cattle, so they don't have to fight for hay.
I've never fed oats - to anything.
Oh yes, also, my showstring gets corn. So if a bred heifer or cow/calf are lucky enough to be part of the showstring - absolutely, they get grain (shell corn & protein pellets). We had a 2-year old cow with calf in showstring this year. Gave her about 6#/day. Didn't need it, but keeps them interested in being "good".

 

[ollie?]

It doesn't really matter how efficient they are if they don't have enough volume to raise a calf and breed back. Capacity is of the utmost importance to me. Efficiency is way down the list.

 

[TSR]

All this talk about high capacity cows makes me wonder if sometimes we aren't looking at the wrong traits for bulls to produce those cows. It seems to me that we really focus on muscle too much at times but then again I guess its what you're trying to accomplish in your herd-your goals.

 

[dun]

All this talk about high capacity cows makes me wonder if sometimes we aren't looking at the wrong traits for bulls to produce those cows. It seems to me that we really focus on muscle too much at times but then again I guess its what you're trying to accomplish in your herd-your goals.

Not that hard to find bulls that will give you both muscle and capacity.

 

[TSR]

I could agree with that Dun, I should have added a nice phenotype, frame, great carcass, udder, etc to go along with the muscle and capacity. Also a lot of these bulls go back to common ancestors so unless you're linebreeding you gotta be careful.

 

[Jovid]

All this talk about high capacity cows makes me wonder if sometimes we aren't looking at the wrong traits for bulls to produce those cows. It seems to me that we really focus on muscle too much at times but then again I guess its what you're trying to accomplish in your herd-your goals.

Not that hard to find bulls that will give you both muscle and capacity.

Nope...At least not with Red Polls

 

[Angus Cowman]

nice looking bull