HDRider
Well-known member
Be sure to catch how Americans pay for their milk twice.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y_higpy0Q9M
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y_higpy0Q9M
Canadian Dairy
- Thread starter HDRider
- Start date
Help Support CattleToday:
farmerjan
Well-known member
There have been many dairy farmers, especially the smaller ones, that were in favor of some sort of "quota" system, similar to Canada's... to help to stem the constantly "get bigger" of the dairy farms. Which Sonny Perdue promotes to the very strong unhappiness of many farm areas. Many of these "mega farms" have foreign owners or partners or investors.
As the video stated, it has helped to keep the supply in check, and it has helped to keep the rural economy much more robust and more people employed. One other thing that is often overlooked here in the states..... These smaller farms are also much more able to control disease outbreaks and contain problems because there are fewer animals to contain and maintain.
Also, these smaller farms do not put the stress on things like water and depleting the acquifers, like is happening in the warmer, southern states. It's not just the water for the dairies, which is absolutely staggering, just for the cows to drink, for washing and maintaining the milking systems and the cleaning of the barns and parlours..... but think about how much water is needed to irrigate all the crops that are grown to supply these farms, and grow the high quality feed that is then trucked to the farms to feed these cattle, to produce the maximum amount of milk.
Smaller farms often grow most of their own feed, sometimes at the mercy of Mother Nature with too much or often, not enough rain.... to produce the highest quality feed. Less than optimal quality will cause a lower production of milk..... sort of a bit of "supply control" even if not intentional. Then the amount of manure/fertilizer is better utilized on these smaller farms because it is used on site, not having to be trucked away to other places.... again, at costs and to the detriment of the whole scheme of things.
Although they have been a boon to so many dairies here, to diversify, the confinement poultry houses are creating a problem with too much poultry litter being used and an oversupply of phosphorus, which can build up over time and get into the water supply, on the land from the poultry litter. So now it is having to be trucked to other areas of the state for it to be used as fertilizer.... but the farmers have found that just being a dairy is not enough so have gone to other methods to spread out the income and costs, and utilization of their farm help. The litter is a great addition to supply their fertilizer needs, but then can be too much if there is not enough land to use it. It has added to some farms on the income side as it is great for farmers to buy, to use if they can get access to it. We do use a fair amount on both our hay fields and our pastures. One thing though, we will get some weeds that were not there before using poultry litter so it has a down side. And it is getting more expensive as the demand from other areas increases, and trucking costs go up. It is not only a good source of NPK but it adds organic matter to the soil which commercial fertilizer does not.
Having the quota system is hard for a younger farmer to get into the dairy business unless he can buy out someone who is retiring, because getting "base" or buying a "quota" is hard to do. But it is keeping more and smaller farms in the dairy business up there and giving them a better wage by also keeping the price they receive for their milk much higher than they get here in the free market system. I would think that there should be some sort of a way to incorporate both a control on over production, and yet not to put a choke hold on people wanting to get into it.
As the video stated, it has helped to keep the supply in check, and it has helped to keep the rural economy much more robust and more people employed. One other thing that is often overlooked here in the states..... These smaller farms are also much more able to control disease outbreaks and contain problems because there are fewer animals to contain and maintain.
Also, these smaller farms do not put the stress on things like water and depleting the acquifers, like is happening in the warmer, southern states. It's not just the water for the dairies, which is absolutely staggering, just for the cows to drink, for washing and maintaining the milking systems and the cleaning of the barns and parlours..... but think about how much water is needed to irrigate all the crops that are grown to supply these farms, and grow the high quality feed that is then trucked to the farms to feed these cattle, to produce the maximum amount of milk.
Smaller farms often grow most of their own feed, sometimes at the mercy of Mother Nature with too much or often, not enough rain.... to produce the highest quality feed. Less than optimal quality will cause a lower production of milk..... sort of a bit of "supply control" even if not intentional. Then the amount of manure/fertilizer is better utilized on these smaller farms because it is used on site, not having to be trucked away to other places.... again, at costs and to the detriment of the whole scheme of things.
Although they have been a boon to so many dairies here, to diversify, the confinement poultry houses are creating a problem with too much poultry litter being used and an oversupply of phosphorus, which can build up over time and get into the water supply, on the land from the poultry litter. So now it is having to be trucked to other areas of the state for it to be used as fertilizer.... but the farmers have found that just being a dairy is not enough so have gone to other methods to spread out the income and costs, and utilization of their farm help. The litter is a great addition to supply their fertilizer needs, but then can be too much if there is not enough land to use it. It has added to some farms on the income side as it is great for farmers to buy, to use if they can get access to it. We do use a fair amount on both our hay fields and our pastures. One thing though, we will get some weeds that were not there before using poultry litter so it has a down side. And it is getting more expensive as the demand from other areas increases, and trucking costs go up. It is not only a good source of NPK but it adds organic matter to the soil which commercial fertilizer does not.
Having the quota system is hard for a younger farmer to get into the dairy business unless he can buy out someone who is retiring, because getting "base" or buying a "quota" is hard to do. But it is keeping more and smaller farms in the dairy business up there and giving them a better wage by also keeping the price they receive for their milk much higher than they get here in the free market system. I would think that there should be some sort of a way to incorporate both a control on over production, and yet not to put a choke hold on people wanting to get into it.
TexasBred
Well-known member
https://www.farmanddairy.com/columns/dairy-channel-advantages-of-large-cow-herds-are-explained/7270.html
OP
OP
HDRider
Well-known member
TexasBred said:
Is this the message you wanted to deliver with the link?
Thraen goes on to say that dairy managers with top management skills and the added advantage of "appropriate size" will continue to do well as long as grain and forage prices stay low. In other words, well-managed larger herds are profitable at current feed and milk prices and should continue to be, even though most smaller herds must subsidize farm income with non-farm income in order to stay in business.
Never forget the following:
1. Canadians are a socialist country.
2. Tax payers dollars in some ways keep dairy AND chicken farmers going while all other farmers struggle.
3. Canadians complain about American milk coming in to Canada - yet .........
4. Canadians have the third largest oil reserves in the world and do not EVER complain that the western economy is being destroyed by easterners supporting the purchase of off shore oil from despotic nations while their own Canadian citizens go hungry.
5. It is no longer a country that is to be admired as they sink into Venezuela equivalency.
6. Canada is now in the top 10 for "per capita debt" in the western world and unemployment is climbing. Recession is coming.
7. Canada is not the stalwart and trustworthy country it once was.
And finally........
8. Once you include all the taxation - including the taxation of certain taxes (yup true - double taxation) you will pay about 60% and possibly more of your income to the government in taxes to simply survive. The average Canadian citizen pays more in tax than food, clothing and shelter.
Most dairy is in Quebec.
They receive a favoured treatment from the federal government because it is mostly French. A foreign country that is treated with favoritism within a country.
Canada is not a good example of much of anything today and not much of it "is as it seems" to the outsider.
Best to all.
1. Canadians are a socialist country.
2. Tax payers dollars in some ways keep dairy AND chicken farmers going while all other farmers struggle.
3. Canadians complain about American milk coming in to Canada - yet .........
4. Canadians have the third largest oil reserves in the world and do not EVER complain that the western economy is being destroyed by easterners supporting the purchase of off shore oil from despotic nations while their own Canadian citizens go hungry.
5. It is no longer a country that is to be admired as they sink into Venezuela equivalency.
6. Canada is now in the top 10 for "per capita debt" in the western world and unemployment is climbing. Recession is coming.
7. Canada is not the stalwart and trustworthy country it once was.
And finally........
8. Once you include all the taxation - including the taxation of certain taxes (yup true - double taxation) you will pay about 60% and possibly more of your income to the government in taxes to simply survive. The average Canadian citizen pays more in tax than food, clothing and shelter.
Most dairy is in Quebec.
They receive a favoured treatment from the federal government because it is mostly French. A foreign country that is treated with favoritism within a country.
Canada is not a good example of much of anything today and not much of it "is as it seems" to the outsider.
Best to all.
TexasBred
Well-known member
HDRider said:
No
Logar said:
Canada is NOT a socialist country and I really doubt you even understand what socialism even means. I assume you confuse social programs and socialism which are not even close to the same. But a quick google search will explain to you why Canada is not a socialist country. It's really just a way for you to insult Canadians.
You don't think that Canadians are aware of the oil issues? Well you obviously don't pay much attention to Canadian politics so I suggest you stop making claims you know nothing about. The issues come down to processing. It's more expensive in Canada to process oil so it makes more sense to sell raw material. My family has been in the oil business for 36 years and trust me, it's alive and well here in Canada.
Canadians complain about American dairy coming into Canada for a few reasons. We don't support mega farms. We don't support letting our generation owned dairy farmers falling apart and many Canadians would rather pay $7.99 for 4L of milk over the $2.99 you can get it for in the US. Many Canadians also don't want to eat animal products from American animals period.
Most dairy is in Quebec and Ontario. And that's just logic. That's where the majority of people are...
Canada and the US has almost identical income tax. Again. Try google. It's really easy. Tax isn't the issue. It's housing costs. Why? Because foreigners want to come here so badly. We have had a massive flood in Chinese citizens moving to Canada buying up our real estate. Some of us have seen massive gains on real estate. But your stat is hogwash. It's actually that most families spend 75% of their income on HOUSING. Not tax.
But. On a side note. This is your second aggressive Canada bashing post in 2 weeks. I mean, I'm Canadian, and I'm by nature nice, but grow up.
alisonb
Well-known member
Logar is Canadian and believe me he is verry grown up :lol2:
Aaron
Well-known member
cowgal604 said:
Just stop. You are blind to the socialism because of where you live. People in the center of the country don't care about housing costs. Most would see it as a great investment opportunity, just like foreigners do. The only people whining about housing are people who can't afford expensive living in the first place. So they do it the socialist way and want the government to meddle into private business affairs (real estate sales).
If you are spending 75% of your income on housing, you can't afford to live where you do. And that is your problem, no one else's! But socialists want to make it someone else's problem.
Logar is a true gem and this country will never be able to pay him back for his dedication because they will be spending too much time pandering to whining little shyts looking for a handout, likely because their house is 'too expensive'.
sim.-ang.king
Well-known member
The truth hurts.
Aaron said:
Blind no? I just understand what socialism means is all. You're welcome to learn a little bit more on your own about the Canadian housing crisiss. Few Canadians vote in favour of having the government control our real estate. In the last election you will see that one of the biggest points that Canadians wanted out was the government imposed stress test. You are right, the people that complain about the real estate crisis are the ones that don't currently own any real estate. Because now its almost impossible for them to. You say that its no one elses problem but youre not thinking about the big picture. Why should the Canadian government allow Chinese citizens to come here, on a discount, and buy up all our land. They should taxed accordingly. Just like I am taxed accordingly for owning a place in Palm Springs. It's no different.
alisonb
Well-known member
Aaron is also Canadian :lol2:
alisonb said:
Where did I say he wasnt? You can be Canadian and still be wrong haha. But this is me signing off of this conversation. Any discussion like this on here just usually ends with me deleting my account haha. Enjoy your day.
Nesikep
Well-known member
You've been living under a rock if you haven't heard the very loud grumblings about thisLogar said:
Just like the US, Canada is governed by the coastal metropolises, and the policies implements are not supported by the majority
TexasBred
Well-known member
As Fence would say "About time for deuce to show up". lololol
OP
OP
HDRider
Well-known member
Care to say what it is?TexasBred said:
Nesikep
Well-known member
Logar, another thing.. you wonder why alberta and the west in general has no money? have you looked at the billions of "Equalization payments" and where the end up?
Nesikep said:Logar, another thing.. you wonder why alberta and the west in general has no money? have you looked at the billions of "Equalization payments" and where the end up?
As a long time BC and Alberta resident I can assure you that I know, and completely agree with the west. As a person who was moved to the east by the military I am doing my darnedest to sell the farm and return. I do not fit in well in this part of the world.
The economy is crashing and the government is doing nothing to stop it - and if you look at the east coast they are truly going to the left.
A sad time indeed.
You be safe and enjoy the rest of the week. I am working crash rescue at the Toronto airport this week and I admit is is exciting work but the people are "so entitled" in this part of the world.
Cheers
Logar
