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Can someone help me with this Hereford bull?

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SWSFHerefords

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I noticed ABS Global has a new bull. He is australian and I dont know much about the blood lines or anything like that over there. But I like the look of him. So I was wondering if anyone has dealt with calves out of him or knows anything about him. Here is his link.

http://abs-bs.absglobal.com/beef/herefo ... o=29HP0910

The website doesnt have EPDS but they have EBVS which im assuming is the same thing? But I dont know if they read the same as american EPDS. Here they are...

CED 2.8, BW 2.9, Gest. -2.5, 200 30, 400 52, 600 70, SC 2.6, Milk 16, MW 70, CEM 2.5

CW 45, IMF 0.9, EMA 2.5, FAT 1.7, RBY -0.6
 

dun

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The American Hereford Assoc. has him as reg # 42998502 but they only have a couple of EPDs
 
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SWSFHerefords

SWSFHerefords

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If you cant already tell I dont do a lot of AIing at all lol. Do you think since he is new they just havent gotten all the epd paperwork and all that done on him? I dont really want to breed to a bull I dont know the numbers on. That will mess with the calves EPDS too wouldnt it?
 

KNERSIE

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Untill they've developed EPDs for him your best bet is to compare his EBVs with the Australian breed average. That will atleast tell you how he compares to the herefords of the rest of Australia. Since the Breedplan EBVs is easier compatible with your EPDs I don't know why they haven't got EPDs for him yet.

Just out of curiosity, what do you expect out of him or is it merely the outcross pedigree that attracts you? For me he is pretty good from just behind the shoulders forward, but the rest is just out of balance with his forequarter.
 

redcowsrule33

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The EBV's and a different picture can be viewed at:

http://abri.une.edu.au/online/cgi-bin/i ... 2&9=5E5C5C

The picture there makes him look slightly more balanced.

It is soooo difficult to base a breeding decision on a bunch of numbers and a picture. I wish they would videotape more bulls so you can evaluate them from more angles, appreciate their mobility, etc. Still photos can really alter the look of an individual, good and bad, depending on the angle and height. Way back when I had an art teacher tell me never to draw/paint from a photo as the proportions will be all wrong. I have been surprised many times once finally viewing a bull in person. Changed my mind many times.

I have a few commercial cows that I know what to expect from and use them for my "experimental" breedings on new bulls if I really want to try someone new without waiting for other people to do it for me. Obviously it isn't a perfect system but I'm not risking a purebred mating on a low accuracy bull, lacking the ability to travel to see all the bulls and the network of people whose opinion I trust (ie., no vested interest in the bull in question).

The Aussie breedplan does list herds with progeny, I would if nothing else e-mail a few of them and ask them what they think, and take it with a grain of salt.
 
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SWSFHerefords

SWSFHerefords

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I do like the pedigree but for some reason for the most part I like the looks of him and think he might cross well on a couple of my girls. I was looking for a stouter bull with a little more muscle but it seems like you get long and fairly lean or short and really muscled up. The heavy muscled short bulls look like pigs to me lol. He looks better in the second picture to me. What do you guys think? I agree pictures usually aren't very good ways to judge the animals. I would really like to see videos of more bulls posted too. Im not sure I will get a chance to try him on my commercial cows first. I only have three baldies. One just calved not long ago and is bred back, the other is a heifer im going to breed back to a heifer bull after she calves (just so I can kind of expect her to have a small calf instead of risking her maybe having a huge one or something), and the third is just a weanling so she will be a while. The rest of our "commercial" cows are full blooded but not papered. They are all bred too for the most part. So the first one I will breed is a registered cow. Shes our herd bulls mom.

If you guys know of a stouter, heavier muscled bull that doesnt look like a hog please let me know! I would prefer one with a very low birthweight.

Thank you for posting that link redcowsrule33 and thank you for the replies!
 

Keren

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I will say this: Andrew Hicks lives not too far from me, they have some of the best, most honest and down to earth working cattle around. I wouldnt hesitate to use their genetics.

This guy was one of their steers that I fed out and showed, handy little steer

 

KNERSIE

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If you guys know of a stouter, heavier muscled bull that doesnt look like a hog please let me know! I would prefer one with a very low birthweight.

Not sure what your definition of a hoglike hereford is, but a bull who's progeny impressed me is Anhinga Vic S84 K16. He doesn't sire much pigment, but the heads and eyes are good and he sires the right kind with enough muscle in a medium frame without sacrifing maternal quality.
 
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SWSFHerefords

SWSFHerefords

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Knersie, I mean the bulls that are built more like belgian blues than herefords and practically drag the ground because their legs are so short. The bull you posted has a little more muscle than I like but I like the heifer they have pictured as his daughter. I may look into him! The only bad thing is we dont have a genex rep anywhere close and I dont AI myself so I dont know what I would do about that. Ill check into it.

Keren, I like the steer you posted too. Is he sired by the shannon bull or have you seen any of his offspring?
 

Keren

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SWSFHerefords":381fg3b1 said:
Knersie, I mean the bulls that are built more like belgian blues than herefords and practically drag the ground because their legs are so short. The bull you posted has a little more muscle than I like but I like the heifer they have pictured as his daughter. I may look into him! The only bad thing is we dont have a genex rep anywhere close and I dont AI myself so I dont know what I would do about that. Ill check into it.

Keren, I like the steer you posted too. Is he sired by the shannon bull or have you seen any of his offspring?

No, not sired by him, but from the same breeder. Andrew Hicks knows his cattle, thats for sure.
 

KNERSIE

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SWSFHerefords":2kerf2eb said:
I dont like the extremely heavy muscled bulls. Just personal preference.

What lead you to believe that light muscled bulls are better?

Heavy muscle is a relative term, seen in the broader sense of the word, there is no extremely heavy muscled herefords, herefords are a moderate muscle breed so extremely heavy muscling in a hereford only equates to moderately heavy muscle in some continental breeds.
 
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SWSFHerefords

SWSFHerefords

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Killala, Thank you for posting that picture. :)

Keren, Thank you for your help. I will see if maybe I can find a website or something that pictures some of his cattle. Im sure you are right though. So far I do really like his stock.

Knersie, like I said, Its just personal preference. Whether its wrong or right I just dont like the muscles that, to me, look to be heavily muscled for a hereford. I do like the bull that you mentioned so I may consider him. But I do want to look into this bull a little more.
 

CPL

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SWSF- what is your customer base? Do they like lighter muscled cattle?
 

HerefordSire

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SWSFHerefords":17p8eg82 said:
I dont like the extremely heavy muscled bulls. Just personal preference.

You are not alone. I don't care for well muscled bulls either. They cannot handle my terrain as well. Imagine the Incredible Hulk doing the MJ moonwalk. Too much muscle could take years off the life of a bull.
 
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SWSFHerefords

SWSFHerefords

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Herefordsire, we probably have close to the same terrain. Although I think yours might be a little rockier than ours.

Everyone please dont take this the wrong way but you're not going to convince me to use a heavy muscled bull when I dont like them. I dont have a problem selling my calves and I haven't used a heavy muscled bull yet. Everyone has what they like and dislike. Thats just something I dont like.

Anyways, can anyone else tell me anything about the bull I posted? Or maybe the victor bull that was posted?
 

CPL

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SWSFHerefords":2selylgy said:
Knersie, I mean the bulls that are built more like belgian blues than herefords

If you find a Hereford Bull that is built like a Belgian Blue you let me know. Last I knew it was genetically impossible because Belgian Blues have the double muscle gene and Herefords don't.

To me, the bull you've posted looks awkward. I also think its interesting that ABS has him at 3 stars of calving ease and 4 stars on carcass, but haven't posted his BW, or his actual scan data. I like the bull Harley posted. I've only seen one bull calf out of him in person, but he was made right. What about the Canadian bull Global that Harley's posted about in the past? I'm pretty sure he has an outcross pedigree that you'll like, and in my opinion better phenotype. Also if you could describe your terrain where lighter muscled cattle have an advantage I'd be all ears.
 
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