remudarose
New member
I am really looking into starting to raise a small herd of beef cattle, I would appreciate any suggestions as how to start. :help:
can some one tell where to start
- Thread starter remudarose
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Anonymous
remudarose":38bbh160 said:
are you planning on raising stockers or cow/calf?
remudarose
New member
this is all new to me so any help will be much appreciated... 
warpaint
Well-known member
Before Springer get's here,
Let me ask, have you thought about Longhorns?
Let me ask, have you thought about Longhorns?
Caustic Burno
Well-known member
warpaint":5axya3tq said:Before Springer get's here,
Let me ask, have you thought about Longhorns?
The original post said they wanted to raise beef cattle. :shock:
warpaint
Well-known member
Caustic Burno":k3w8fah6 said:warpaint":k3w8fah6 said:Before Springer get's here,
Let me ask, have you thought about Longhorns?
The original post said they wanted to raise beef cattle. :shock:
They is the original beef breed! 8)
I take it this person has never owned a cow in there life... I dont know much about Longhorns, but I do know they have LONG horns. A new comer might not wanna get involved with that.
As for the original question... read all the other questions. Main thing, get everything set up before you bring in the cattle. Water, fences, hay (are you in a drought?), corral, and on and on....
warpaint
Well-known member
As to the poster being new to cattle, I saw that, and was making a funny toward Springer. (As was noted by the smilie)
As to Longhorns in general, they are for the most part, a gentle breed of cattle. Yes, they have horn. But, I have never been around one that didn't know exactly where the tip of that horn was.
I will say, that experience with any breed would be helpful, when raising LH's.
As to Longhorns in general, they are for the most part, a gentle breed of cattle. Yes, they have horn. But, I have never been around one that didn't know exactly where the tip of that horn was.
I will say, that experience with any breed would be helpful, when raising LH's.
backhoeboogie
Well-known member
Paint, I picked up on your pun right off. Springer aint here yet but ya know its coming, and I'm going to chuckle at him.
Cattle are a commodity, and traded as such. If this fellow is wanting to get started, he's doing the right thing; asking questions. That is number one in my book, a questioning attitude. When I invest in the stock market, I look pretty hard.
If a person can look at cattle as equity, figure out how much to invest, and build up a 20% equity in the herd each year with breeding stock, they are doing pretty good in my book. You also have to consider you are building equity in land and everything else, when applicable. But you are also building equity in land if you just hold it without cattle, under the current cycles.
You have to cut your risks. There are things like having water sources to irrigate from which can be life or death in this current drought. Otherwise, it is tough times where I live. Folks are selling out, culling deep, moving herds, and implementing other alternatives.
When you sell out you take a profit (hopefully) but there goes the equity you were building too, and you pay taxes on your profits.
If a cow can walk through an auction barn, it is worth something. It can be sold. If you are going to sell, there are the right times to do so. Yo don't want to sell an animal when it is on its last leg. You don't want to buy something that is about to be either. There are the right times to buy. Sometimes you just plain get lucky and you find yourself at the right place at the right time.
If I were just getting started, I would look at this business much differently now, than I did before. I would look at the markets and look hard. Find out what brings the most nickels, consistently, and plan accordingly. I would look at the cost of producing that commodity, and then decide what risks were involved. You can figure ways to reduce costs and cut losses.
When you think about it, resorting to AI is sort of like a business "Outsourcing".
The more of any commodity you can produce, the more nickels you can make. It helps to have good markets.
Watch out for horse traders in this business, they are everywhere but so are good people who can share a wealth of knowledge.
Just like investing in the stock market, things can crash when you don't anticipate it.
Personally, you can consider me a hobby boy. I am simply building equity. If I sell out right now and choose something else, I will have made a decent profit. If I had made the right choices each and every time, I would have built more equity. I would make more money this year if I sold out completely and just started selling hay. But next year it could be a wet year and hay rolls may be a dime a dozen. Diversifying into different aspects has its rewards.
So if a man is asking, I can only advise him not to make the mistakes I made. Raise or feed out something that will be in demand at the time you are ready to sell. Get your feed sources as cheap as you can, but don't degrade your product. Trade for things. Shop carefully and shop well. Each time you buy a piece of equipment, figure that cost and figure what that equipment can do for you financially. Can you hire out with it to help pay for it? Are you willing to do that?
Think business and think profits.
I think of my cattle as sort of an IRA, for now. I don't have to make money on them since they are not my mainstay. At the same time, I have to build equity to justify the investment. When I am 80 years old, I'll still be learning and there will be new medications and ailments all along the way.
Cattle are a commodity, and traded as such. If this fellow is wanting to get started, he's doing the right thing; asking questions. That is number one in my book, a questioning attitude. When I invest in the stock market, I look pretty hard.
If a person can look at cattle as equity, figure out how much to invest, and build up a 20% equity in the herd each year with breeding stock, they are doing pretty good in my book. You also have to consider you are building equity in land and everything else, when applicable. But you are also building equity in land if you just hold it without cattle, under the current cycles.
You have to cut your risks. There are things like having water sources to irrigate from which can be life or death in this current drought. Otherwise, it is tough times where I live. Folks are selling out, culling deep, moving herds, and implementing other alternatives.
When you sell out you take a profit (hopefully) but there goes the equity you were building too, and you pay taxes on your profits.
If a cow can walk through an auction barn, it is worth something. It can be sold. If you are going to sell, there are the right times to do so. Yo don't want to sell an animal when it is on its last leg. You don't want to buy something that is about to be either. There are the right times to buy. Sometimes you just plain get lucky and you find yourself at the right place at the right time.
If I were just getting started, I would look at this business much differently now, than I did before. I would look at the markets and look hard. Find out what brings the most nickels, consistently, and plan accordingly. I would look at the cost of producing that commodity, and then decide what risks were involved. You can figure ways to reduce costs and cut losses.
When you think about it, resorting to AI is sort of like a business "Outsourcing".
The more of any commodity you can produce, the more nickels you can make. It helps to have good markets.
Watch out for horse traders in this business, they are everywhere but so are good people who can share a wealth of knowledge.
Just like investing in the stock market, things can crash when you don't anticipate it.
Personally, you can consider me a hobby boy. I am simply building equity. If I sell out right now and choose something else, I will have made a decent profit. If I had made the right choices each and every time, I would have built more equity. I would make more money this year if I sold out completely and just started selling hay. But next year it could be a wet year and hay rolls may be a dime a dozen. Diversifying into different aspects has its rewards.
So if a man is asking, I can only advise him not to make the mistakes I made. Raise or feed out something that will be in demand at the time you are ready to sell. Get your feed sources as cheap as you can, but don't degrade your product. Trade for things. Shop carefully and shop well. Each time you buy a piece of equipment, figure that cost and figure what that equipment can do for you financially. Can you hire out with it to help pay for it? Are you willing to do that?
Think business and think profits.
I think of my cattle as sort of an IRA, for now. I don't have to make money on them since they are not my mainstay. At the same time, I have to build equity to justify the investment. When I am 80 years old, I'll still be learning and there will be new medications and ailments all along the way.
mnmtranching
Well-known member
Remember, The slower you work cattle the faster you get done.
mnmt
mnmt
remudarose":35wrmc5m said:
Borrow or buy a copy of "Storey's Guide to Raising Beef Cattle" and read it. That will give you a starting point and you can then ask questions about things you don't understand. Then research common illnesses and diseases, behaviour of different breeds, how to tell if they are getting sick, how to tell a good cow from a bad cow, conformation, what to look for when buying, how to feed them, how to take care of them, what they need, how to handle them (Temple Grandin has some good information on this one), and then get your infrastructure in place - pens, chute, alleyways, etc. Then decide what you want to achieve and what kind of an operation you want to have - feeders, stockers, pairs. If you want to turn them out on grass, find out how to manage the grass so it does not become overgrazed and useless. If you work off farm and decide you want to do pairs, stay away from breeding yearlings and pregnant 2 year olds - go with at least 4 year olds, way less trouble. That's all I can think of right now, I hope it helps.
my response to most people wanting to get into beef cattle is to contact your local county agriculture extension agent.
they are a good place to start as they know the area, soils, forages, and other people that may be able to help you in the area.
they are a good place to start as they know the area, soils, forages, and other people that may be able to help you in the area.
Diehard40":1767bxe6 said:
I agree, this is the best thing you can do hands down. They can give you practical advice and knowledge specifically for your area. Let you know what works and what doesnt saving you from repeating someones elses mistakes.
Jogeephus
Well-known member
I'll give you some advice that was given me by an old cattleman and friend for many years.
1. Don't go chasing breeds. They come and go.
2. Stay realistic with what your income will be from your calves.
3. Stick to the basic tried and true principles.
I would suggest talking with someone who has a cow calf operation and buying some bred cows that they are culling. For instance, I am fixing to sell several "culls" because of some heifers I've bred for replacements. These "culls" are the result of years of culling and there is nothing wrong with them. I have helped several folks get into the business in this manner and I stand behind my cattle. In reading this board I am sure there are many people with the same love and fascination as I have for cattle and would be more than happy to take you under their wing till you get on your feet.
I think you will love cattle. They are like people. Each having their own personality.
I would suggest getting an english breed such as angus or hereford. Watch out for a big ear since you don't want to start out with a heavy brahma influenced cow. They have very strong motherly instincts. I would get a commercial black cow or a black baldie type. People like black. And they are generally gentle animals.
Good Luck. Wish you were close by I could set you up. Gonna haul some "culls" off to the sale next week. Would rather know whose gonna be taking care of me girls.
1. Don't go chasing breeds. They come and go.
2. Stay realistic with what your income will be from your calves.
3. Stick to the basic tried and true principles.
I would suggest talking with someone who has a cow calf operation and buying some bred cows that they are culling. For instance, I am fixing to sell several "culls" because of some heifers I've bred for replacements. These "culls" are the result of years of culling and there is nothing wrong with them. I have helped several folks get into the business in this manner and I stand behind my cattle. In reading this board I am sure there are many people with the same love and fascination as I have for cattle and would be more than happy to take you under their wing till you get on your feet.
I think you will love cattle. They are like people. Each having their own personality.
I would suggest getting an english breed such as angus or hereford. Watch out for a big ear since you don't want to start out with a heavy brahma influenced cow. They have very strong motherly instincts. I would get a commercial black cow or a black baldie type. People like black. And they are generally gentle animals.
Good Luck. Wish you were close by I could set you up. Gonna haul some "culls" off to the sale next week. Would rather know whose gonna be taking care of me girls.
Bez?
Well-known member
A couple of my responses to others who have asked a similar question - some of it is applicable to you and some is not.
Take what you need and ignore the remainder.
Have fun,
Bez?
-----------------------------------
You have equipment. Do you have infrastructure? Equipment is not important, but infrastructure is.
For now you do not need to know anything about cows - you need to read some of this below and THEN think on the animals.
I do not know you and you do not know me – but I think I am going to keep this on file as my standard answer to this regular question.
You mention nothing about your experience, or your infrastructure and so on – so there is some pretty basic stuff here that you need to know – if you do not – it's a learning day. If you do – then accept my apologies for boring you.
These are animals - not pets. They are tough, ornery, eating machines that one day will run you over and the next day look at you with a calmness that you cannot believe. They are one heck of a great hobby - that is how wife and I got started in the business years ago. Love 'em, but if you spoil 'em you will end up with problems.
They eat grass and hay. They drink water and they need some mineral. That is all. If they do not thrive on this - sell the lot and start over. Any animal that needs grain and creep and such will cost you money - that cost takes away from any profit. Do not plan on profit for a few years. There will always be something you need to buy that you do not have.
Do not believe every Tom, Dick and Harry that says you need "sack feed". In fact if you do - unless you are in dire straits because of pasture or hay or drought problems - you have the wrong cattle on the property. Feeding from a sack is a losers game.
Make sure you have a good veterinarian you can call upon. Find this person BEFORE you need him / her. Trust me - there will come a day when you will need to make the call. That is the worst time to start your search.
As for breeds - well, any beef cow that can live in Canada can live in the U.S. of A. - some may do better than others - but darned near every breed you have down south is found in Canada - which is where I live. I happen to like the British breeds and run HH – but that does not mean you have to stay British. If you have the right kind of ground and the right kind of feed they will ALL do well.
Just remember this little tidbit ... and this is important - you probably do not have experience in breeding, calving and doctoring. Not a slur, just a fact - so find something that will not crush you when something goes wrong - and believe me, it sooner or later will.
So have a chute set up and a squeeze or head gate - BEFORE YOU BRING THEM ANIMALS ON THE PLACE!
Make sure it is attached to that solid pen so you can work them.
Nearly all breeds do well - especially if they can be contained, sheltered, fed and watered. That's it in a nutshell. The rest is easy.
We all have our favourites - but who cares if you have a patchwork quilt of animals in the field - if they are solid, quiet animals with calves at side - well, be happy.
Go cheap. Go with pairs. Older girls - NEVER start with heifers - bred or not. This is a disaster for a newbie - just waiting to happen.
Instant moms that are bred back. Go with quiet. Do not ask what breed – at this stage you had better not care - it is not important, walk in amongst them before you buy - if they are gone like deer - then forget them. If they jump, fight or run you - run for your truck. If they load hard - run for your truck and leave. If they are not vet checked and preg checked - with you present - run for your truck and put your money away for another day. Split the call out fee – you pay vet bills for the ones you take – vendor pays for the ones you do not.
Go with mature to prevent calving probs and mothers who disown or kill their calves with starvation - not common, but it does happen. Go private - not sale barn - do not buy someone elses trouble – unless it is a TOTAL herd dispersal – and these can be real good sales to go to. Tell the owner you WILL be back if there are problems that may have been hidden. Get all their records - herd health, vaccinations, dates of birth, and so on. If those records are not available - run for your truck.
Look up my thread - Ding! Dong! Brindles Dead - and avoid any brindles like crazy - no matter what the breed. Perhaps I am just superstitious?
Find an old hand in your area - have him go with you and look at least 5 different outfits before you make up your mind - that way you have an idea of what you are up against. Bargain hard - know your price before you leave your own driveway and stick to it. Don't deviate - there are lots of really good animals out there for sale.
Have a good fence, SOLID FENCE IS BEST, some feed and water available when they show up at home - even quiet animals can become tornadoes for a day or two. If your penning area is small and poorly fenced, plan on searching for them for a couple of days before they settle in.
Others who back me – and I quickly found two – both know their stuff:
Craig-Tx wrote:
But if you're wanting a few cows that will pay their own way why not buy cheap pairs. Then you know she can calve. Buy young momma cows that look somewhat poor but sound. Or buy 6-8 year old sound cows with light calves at their sides. You will get a pair for $hundreds less than a fancy cow will cost and you'll be amazed at what she will look like next year if you've put her on good grass and taken care of her thru the winter. She might not be anything to brag about but you'll be in the money on her next calf. The same principle, with a little more risk, can be applied to young bred cows. And same for bulls.
Old Timer wrote:
Craig- I agree with you-- If you just want to run a few cows the best money is in buying a few older bred cows--many places cull them when they lose 1 tooth (sometimes only 4-5 years old) or hit 10 years of age-- Sell for $350- 500 as brokenmouths - Some of these cows have several years left in them if you have good pasture-- I've bought them over the years just to put on one good pasture I have and probably made more off them than some of the ones I raised-- Altho this year those same cows that were selling for $400 are now selling for $800-900..... Might just have to run some of the old girls one more year on that pasture.
So, it looks like there are three of us in the same boat. Start slow and build. You have enough ground, but do you have enough experience and time to handle more than 10 – 15? A good number for a beginner with your ground available.
If you can hay the excess pasture and have too much laying around - stockpile it - you should have at least two to three years of hay behind you - there will come a time you need it - and YES cows will eat hay that is many years old - and you will be darned happy to have it at least a few times in your life. Sell the excess hay for the first couple of years. Do not sell it until January – by then you'll know what you need for the remainder of the year.
If you plan to sell them - make sure that you are selling into an accepting crowd. As an example - if the area you are in loves that black hide, you will suffer with a dollar penalty by trying to sell red. In my area black AND red are guaranteed to sell 10 - 20 cents a pound less than a TAN colour. Go figure - if you take the clothes off of them 99% of producers could not tell you what breed they were. Do your homework. If you want to go "exotic" fine – be darned sure they are quiet and you can handle them.
Far as I am concerned - solid animal is good - but cheaper is better.
Calves all sell - you just want good 'uns. Healthy and lively.
Get all your fences in order FIRST!
Have your pens set up and ready. Have a SOLID pen - heavy boards or steel - at least 6 feet high and put the cows in there when you get home - if you do not - and you are unlucky - you WILL be rodeoing all over the country. Those quiet animals you have purchased may be pretty wild for the first few days after you bring them home. Feed and water them in this pen for a week.
If you have even one that does not settle down - toss her - even at a loss. Trust me when I say you will be far better off - it only takes one animal to rile up a herd. DO NOT IGNORE THIS! It only takes one! Get rid of her asap.
Probably missed a few things – but you get the idea. The other old hands will fill in the blanks and you can ask the questions as they come up.
Go for it - have fun and welcome to an interesting life - that of a cattleman!
Regards
Bez?
---------------------------------------
Ok - I will pop in for a bit.
Because you are a low numbered poster I will assume - possibly incorreectly that you are relatively new to this - if not you may pick a few choice items out of this. If not at all then maybe another reader will.
You wanna' buy cows.
Great. If you have the infrastructure for them - let's get on with it. If you do not, then stop and build - then buy.
First things first. You need a STRONG pen - made of something other than wire fencing to hold the new arrivals. I know some folks do not like to go this way, but I recommend at least 6 feet high, solid wood with a heavy rail on top to prevent them from crushing it when - not if - someone tries to escape over the top. Any cow can try to go over - if you stop them they do not continue - if you do not stop them they become your worst nightmare.
My second choice is steel - more expensive, but in my mind a better choice - but cost can be prohibitive.
No matter - always build at least one pen that is guaranteed to have NO escapees!
5 Feet tall does not cut it - 6 is best - mine is even taller.
Lock them up for at least a week and decide on which ones are not going to give you probs. You might seriously consider selling those who do not settle in. It only takes one beach to ruin a herd - toss the high headed one(s) before you let them out on pasture. Even if you take a loss in bucks - it will save you a terrific amount of grief.
For this reason you should also have some type of very secure handling system available - BEFORE you bring the animals home.
When you let them out - they go into a small field.
All water and feed stays in the catch pen they just spent the week or so in. That way they will always come home. The first field they go into should always be accessed through your main catch pen. Keeps it easy to round them up until your home truly becomes their home.
You might want to give a loud and continuous "Hey Girls" or something like that when you feed them. This will condition them to come to the call. Even if they are locked in the pen.
You might look like a goof while you are training them, but for sure you will be the big dog on the walk when - not if - they get out. You will walk out there with a pail and they will come on the run.
Now you want to buy a specific breed. That is fine. In my opinion you will do well with any animal. So let's talk about the animal purchase itself.
If you are ready to go for a drive and do some buying - leave your cheque book at home. Know in advance exactly what you are willing to spend. Stay within the budget - no sense breaking the bank on something that can die in transit.
When you look at the animals - walk in the herd. On foot or on horse - makes no mind to me. But on foot if that is the way you will handle them when you get them home.
If they run you - take your truck and your money and leave. I do not care how nice they are - you are not in the cattle "calming" business.
If they take off at high speed when you approach - take your truck and your money and leave. I do not care how nice they are - you are not in the cattle "retrieving" business.
How I buy cattle for the place - which I seldom do now.
You mark them - paint gun works. You record the tag numbers. You cut them out and run them through the chutes and squeeze at the sellers place. Any attitude observed here puts them - IMMEDIATELY - back in the sellers herd.
Look at the records the seller has on his suggested animals. If he has no records - I leave. I want to know what I am buying and where they come from and how they are bred and .... well, you get the idea. Never buy unknowns if you are not an old hand in the business - lots of folks will be more than happy to sell you their troubles, take your money and lock the gate when you leave.
I have a veterinarian come to the sellers place. I have each animal inspected. Completely. If vaccinations are not up to date we do them on the spot. Sometimes I pay and sometimes I split this cost - depends on my mood and the relationship I have with the seller.
I split the veterinarians' mileage bill with the seller. I pay the veterinarian cost for the animals I buy. The seller pays for the animals that are inspected but I kick out of the line up.
Same goes for any calves that might be coming along.
I pay for the trucking to my place.
I get the following from the seller.
1. Copy of complete veterinarinan bill.
2. Copy of veterinarian report. I want this in a big way.
3. Copy of all breeding and health care notes.
4. Copy of final receipt.
5. Any guarantees I can get from the seller - safe in calf - will continue to breed - vaccinations up to date as per our agreement and so on. Return of animals if required. You get the drift.
The breed? Well, I like them both despite admitting I know little about them. Biggest thing I notice about small holders is they tend to get caught up in the minutia and allow the devil to tie up the details.
Both are quite acceptable and both will serve you well. Just be sure to buy what fits YOUR program. And if at all possible buy cow, calf at side and already safe in calf.
Instant herd, instant replacements, instant cash flow and first year breeding - all taken care of while you settle in with your new responsibilities and learn what it takes to raise cattle.
If you are a newbie - do not - please do not - buy an entire herd of bred hiefers - you are not ready - trust me on this.
Find a reputable breeder or two or more and visit them all. If they know you are a serious buyer they will treat you well, answer your questions, assist you in future projects and do their darndest to BUILD A RELATIONSHIP.
They really do want your return business. And you want to give it to them if you find the right place. Trust me on this - relationships in the cattle industry will make you or break you.
Besides - if you have a few good years the seller may indeed become YOUR buyer!
If you have all of the above looked after, you are well on your way and either animal will fit YOUR situation.
Buy quality NOT quantity - if you are newbie take an old hand along with you.
I am sure I left some stuff out - but the old hands here will fill it in.
Forgive the un-asked for advice - often these are the details that are often over looked. In closing - both breeds will serve you well.
Good luck,
Bez!
---------------------------------------
Never get excited - we move slow and speak soft.
I can use a cane hard if required - very rare.
Wife and I can sort a pile of animals and nothing gets excited.
But, we have the infrastructure set up to handle a good sized bunch.
2 people and we could easily work a couple hundred a day.
Bez?
----------------------------------------------
Take what you need and ignore the remainder.
Have fun,
Bez?
-----------------------------------
You have equipment. Do you have infrastructure? Equipment is not important, but infrastructure is.
For now you do not need to know anything about cows - you need to read some of this below and THEN think on the animals.
I do not know you and you do not know me – but I think I am going to keep this on file as my standard answer to this regular question.
You mention nothing about your experience, or your infrastructure and so on – so there is some pretty basic stuff here that you need to know – if you do not – it's a learning day. If you do – then accept my apologies for boring you.
These are animals - not pets. They are tough, ornery, eating machines that one day will run you over and the next day look at you with a calmness that you cannot believe. They are one heck of a great hobby - that is how wife and I got started in the business years ago. Love 'em, but if you spoil 'em you will end up with problems.
They eat grass and hay. They drink water and they need some mineral. That is all. If they do not thrive on this - sell the lot and start over. Any animal that needs grain and creep and such will cost you money - that cost takes away from any profit. Do not plan on profit for a few years. There will always be something you need to buy that you do not have.
Do not believe every Tom, Dick and Harry that says you need "sack feed". In fact if you do - unless you are in dire straits because of pasture or hay or drought problems - you have the wrong cattle on the property. Feeding from a sack is a losers game.
Make sure you have a good veterinarian you can call upon. Find this person BEFORE you need him / her. Trust me - there will come a day when you will need to make the call. That is the worst time to start your search.
As for breeds - well, any beef cow that can live in Canada can live in the U.S. of A. - some may do better than others - but darned near every breed you have down south is found in Canada - which is where I live. I happen to like the British breeds and run HH – but that does not mean you have to stay British. If you have the right kind of ground and the right kind of feed they will ALL do well.
Just remember this little tidbit ... and this is important - you probably do not have experience in breeding, calving and doctoring. Not a slur, just a fact - so find something that will not crush you when something goes wrong - and believe me, it sooner or later will.
So have a chute set up and a squeeze or head gate - BEFORE YOU BRING THEM ANIMALS ON THE PLACE!
Make sure it is attached to that solid pen so you can work them.
Nearly all breeds do well - especially if they can be contained, sheltered, fed and watered. That's it in a nutshell. The rest is easy.
We all have our favourites - but who cares if you have a patchwork quilt of animals in the field - if they are solid, quiet animals with calves at side - well, be happy.
Go cheap. Go with pairs. Older girls - NEVER start with heifers - bred or not. This is a disaster for a newbie - just waiting to happen.
Instant moms that are bred back. Go with quiet. Do not ask what breed – at this stage you had better not care - it is not important, walk in amongst them before you buy - if they are gone like deer - then forget them. If they jump, fight or run you - run for your truck. If they load hard - run for your truck and leave. If they are not vet checked and preg checked - with you present - run for your truck and put your money away for another day. Split the call out fee – you pay vet bills for the ones you take – vendor pays for the ones you do not.
Go with mature to prevent calving probs and mothers who disown or kill their calves with starvation - not common, but it does happen. Go private - not sale barn - do not buy someone elses trouble – unless it is a TOTAL herd dispersal – and these can be real good sales to go to. Tell the owner you WILL be back if there are problems that may have been hidden. Get all their records - herd health, vaccinations, dates of birth, and so on. If those records are not available - run for your truck.
Look up my thread - Ding! Dong! Brindles Dead - and avoid any brindles like crazy - no matter what the breed. Perhaps I am just superstitious?
Find an old hand in your area - have him go with you and look at least 5 different outfits before you make up your mind - that way you have an idea of what you are up against. Bargain hard - know your price before you leave your own driveway and stick to it. Don't deviate - there are lots of really good animals out there for sale.
Have a good fence, SOLID FENCE IS BEST, some feed and water available when they show up at home - even quiet animals can become tornadoes for a day or two. If your penning area is small and poorly fenced, plan on searching for them for a couple of days before they settle in.
Others who back me – and I quickly found two – both know their stuff:
Craig-Tx wrote:
But if you're wanting a few cows that will pay their own way why not buy cheap pairs. Then you know she can calve. Buy young momma cows that look somewhat poor but sound. Or buy 6-8 year old sound cows with light calves at their sides. You will get a pair for $hundreds less than a fancy cow will cost and you'll be amazed at what she will look like next year if you've put her on good grass and taken care of her thru the winter. She might not be anything to brag about but you'll be in the money on her next calf. The same principle, with a little more risk, can be applied to young bred cows. And same for bulls.
Old Timer wrote:
Craig- I agree with you-- If you just want to run a few cows the best money is in buying a few older bred cows--many places cull them when they lose 1 tooth (sometimes only 4-5 years old) or hit 10 years of age-- Sell for $350- 500 as brokenmouths - Some of these cows have several years left in them if you have good pasture-- I've bought them over the years just to put on one good pasture I have and probably made more off them than some of the ones I raised-- Altho this year those same cows that were selling for $400 are now selling for $800-900..... Might just have to run some of the old girls one more year on that pasture.
So, it looks like there are three of us in the same boat. Start slow and build. You have enough ground, but do you have enough experience and time to handle more than 10 – 15? A good number for a beginner with your ground available.
If you can hay the excess pasture and have too much laying around - stockpile it - you should have at least two to three years of hay behind you - there will come a time you need it - and YES cows will eat hay that is many years old - and you will be darned happy to have it at least a few times in your life. Sell the excess hay for the first couple of years. Do not sell it until January – by then you'll know what you need for the remainder of the year.
If you plan to sell them - make sure that you are selling into an accepting crowd. As an example - if the area you are in loves that black hide, you will suffer with a dollar penalty by trying to sell red. In my area black AND red are guaranteed to sell 10 - 20 cents a pound less than a TAN colour. Go figure - if you take the clothes off of them 99% of producers could not tell you what breed they were. Do your homework. If you want to go "exotic" fine – be darned sure they are quiet and you can handle them.
Far as I am concerned - solid animal is good - but cheaper is better.
Calves all sell - you just want good 'uns. Healthy and lively.
Get all your fences in order FIRST!
Have your pens set up and ready. Have a SOLID pen - heavy boards or steel - at least 6 feet high and put the cows in there when you get home - if you do not - and you are unlucky - you WILL be rodeoing all over the country. Those quiet animals you have purchased may be pretty wild for the first few days after you bring them home. Feed and water them in this pen for a week.
If you have even one that does not settle down - toss her - even at a loss. Trust me when I say you will be far better off - it only takes one animal to rile up a herd. DO NOT IGNORE THIS! It only takes one! Get rid of her asap.
Probably missed a few things – but you get the idea. The other old hands will fill in the blanks and you can ask the questions as they come up.
Go for it - have fun and welcome to an interesting life - that of a cattleman!
Regards
Bez?
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Ok - I will pop in for a bit.
Because you are a low numbered poster I will assume - possibly incorreectly that you are relatively new to this - if not you may pick a few choice items out of this. If not at all then maybe another reader will.
You wanna' buy cows.
Great. If you have the infrastructure for them - let's get on with it. If you do not, then stop and build - then buy.
First things first. You need a STRONG pen - made of something other than wire fencing to hold the new arrivals. I know some folks do not like to go this way, but I recommend at least 6 feet high, solid wood with a heavy rail on top to prevent them from crushing it when - not if - someone tries to escape over the top. Any cow can try to go over - if you stop them they do not continue - if you do not stop them they become your worst nightmare.
My second choice is steel - more expensive, but in my mind a better choice - but cost can be prohibitive.
No matter - always build at least one pen that is guaranteed to have NO escapees!
5 Feet tall does not cut it - 6 is best - mine is even taller.
Lock them up for at least a week and decide on which ones are not going to give you probs. You might seriously consider selling those who do not settle in. It only takes one beach to ruin a herd - toss the high headed one(s) before you let them out on pasture. Even if you take a loss in bucks - it will save you a terrific amount of grief.
For this reason you should also have some type of very secure handling system available - BEFORE you bring the animals home.
When you let them out - they go into a small field.
All water and feed stays in the catch pen they just spent the week or so in. That way they will always come home. The first field they go into should always be accessed through your main catch pen. Keeps it easy to round them up until your home truly becomes their home.
You might want to give a loud and continuous "Hey Girls" or something like that when you feed them. This will condition them to come to the call. Even if they are locked in the pen.
You might look like a goof while you are training them, but for sure you will be the big dog on the walk when - not if - they get out. You will walk out there with a pail and they will come on the run.
Now you want to buy a specific breed. That is fine. In my opinion you will do well with any animal. So let's talk about the animal purchase itself.
If you are ready to go for a drive and do some buying - leave your cheque book at home. Know in advance exactly what you are willing to spend. Stay within the budget - no sense breaking the bank on something that can die in transit.
When you look at the animals - walk in the herd. On foot or on horse - makes no mind to me. But on foot if that is the way you will handle them when you get them home.
If they run you - take your truck and your money and leave. I do not care how nice they are - you are not in the cattle "calming" business.
If they take off at high speed when you approach - take your truck and your money and leave. I do not care how nice they are - you are not in the cattle "retrieving" business.
How I buy cattle for the place - which I seldom do now.
You mark them - paint gun works. You record the tag numbers. You cut them out and run them through the chutes and squeeze at the sellers place. Any attitude observed here puts them - IMMEDIATELY - back in the sellers herd.
Look at the records the seller has on his suggested animals. If he has no records - I leave. I want to know what I am buying and where they come from and how they are bred and .... well, you get the idea. Never buy unknowns if you are not an old hand in the business - lots of folks will be more than happy to sell you their troubles, take your money and lock the gate when you leave.
I have a veterinarian come to the sellers place. I have each animal inspected. Completely. If vaccinations are not up to date we do them on the spot. Sometimes I pay and sometimes I split this cost - depends on my mood and the relationship I have with the seller.
I split the veterinarians' mileage bill with the seller. I pay the veterinarian cost for the animals I buy. The seller pays for the animals that are inspected but I kick out of the line up.
Same goes for any calves that might be coming along.
I pay for the trucking to my place.
I get the following from the seller.
1. Copy of complete veterinarinan bill.
2. Copy of veterinarian report. I want this in a big way.
3. Copy of all breeding and health care notes.
4. Copy of final receipt.
5. Any guarantees I can get from the seller - safe in calf - will continue to breed - vaccinations up to date as per our agreement and so on. Return of animals if required. You get the drift.
The breed? Well, I like them both despite admitting I know little about them. Biggest thing I notice about small holders is they tend to get caught up in the minutia and allow the devil to tie up the details.
Both are quite acceptable and both will serve you well. Just be sure to buy what fits YOUR program. And if at all possible buy cow, calf at side and already safe in calf.
Instant herd, instant replacements, instant cash flow and first year breeding - all taken care of while you settle in with your new responsibilities and learn what it takes to raise cattle.
If you are a newbie - do not - please do not - buy an entire herd of bred hiefers - you are not ready - trust me on this.
Find a reputable breeder or two or more and visit them all. If they know you are a serious buyer they will treat you well, answer your questions, assist you in future projects and do their darndest to BUILD A RELATIONSHIP.
They really do want your return business. And you want to give it to them if you find the right place. Trust me on this - relationships in the cattle industry will make you or break you.
Besides - if you have a few good years the seller may indeed become YOUR buyer!
If you have all of the above looked after, you are well on your way and either animal will fit YOUR situation.
Buy quality NOT quantity - if you are newbie take an old hand along with you.
I am sure I left some stuff out - but the old hands here will fill it in.
Forgive the un-asked for advice - often these are the details that are often over looked. In closing - both breeds will serve you well.
Good luck,
Bez!
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Never get excited - we move slow and speak soft.
I can use a cane hard if required - very rare.
Wife and I can sort a pile of animals and nothing gets excited.
But, we have the infrastructure set up to handle a good sized bunch.
2 people and we could easily work a couple hundred a day.
Bez?
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