Good idea on those troughs. Do they knock over or move those troughs around? Do the nails or screws rust out from weather or salty feeds? I've gone to all concrete troughs but a friend builds them so I have easy acces to them.
Calves newly weaned weight gain
- Thread starter CowboyRam
- Start date
Help Support CattleToday:
Silver
Well-known member
Mine are low and wide so are never knocked over. I put mine together with lag bolts so the wood will be gone before the bolts are. I'm sure I'd really like concrete, but these are fast to make and cheap, so that's what I have.
WFfarm
Well-known member
We pool our calves with a neighbor in his dairy barn to wean for 21 days. We would condition them longer but have issues with water freezing and logistics of when our buyer wants them. Total of 50 head, ours are simangus and his are angus. They get second cutting hay and oat/clover/cowpea bailage, and some 14% grain mix. First round of shots the calves go back to pasture with mothers. Second round of shots are the day we wean them and put into the barn, and we individually weigh them with our platform scale.
482 lb start average, 531 finish average, 49 lb average gain.
482 lb start average, 531 finish average, 49 lb average gain.
faster horses
Well-known member
I found the cracked corn vs. whole corn conversation very interesting so did a little research.
I did find this, it was a comment on another site:
Whole corn and cracked corn react differently in the rumen.
Cracked corn falls to the bottom and is passed out of the rumen quickly. Whole corn swells and, if the animal is getting enough forage/fiber, is brought back up for cudding. The few kernals that don't get chewed give up their starch to the rumen microbes, and act as fiber in the intestinal tract.
Feeding studies on beef cattle have shown that whole corn is a much better feed than had previously been thought. In some areas, cow/calf producers are being encouraged to replace part of the winter hay ration with whole corn for their pregnant cows.
The animal gets a base ration of hay (I think it was 1% of the body weight) and then for the rest of the ration 1 lb of whole corn replaces 2 lbs of hay.
Interesting, and seems to be working quite well for those that are doing it.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
FWIW. I always thought cracked corn was best. We didn't use much whole corn for our replacement heifers because we couldn't get them started on it. So they got grass hay, our
Forage Pro product which is soybean based protein supplement and mineral. They did great on it.
I did find this, it was a comment on another site:
Whole corn and cracked corn react differently in the rumen.
Cracked corn falls to the bottom and is passed out of the rumen quickly. Whole corn swells and, if the animal is getting enough forage/fiber, is brought back up for cudding. The few kernals that don't get chewed give up their starch to the rumen microbes, and act as fiber in the intestinal tract.
Feeding studies on beef cattle have shown that whole corn is a much better feed than had previously been thought. In some areas, cow/calf producers are being encouraged to replace part of the winter hay ration with whole corn for their pregnant cows.
The animal gets a base ration of hay (I think it was 1% of the body weight) and then for the rest of the ration 1 lb of whole corn replaces 2 lbs of hay.
Interesting, and seems to be working quite well for those that are doing it.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
FWIW. I always thought cracked corn was best. We didn't use much whole corn for our replacement heifers because we couldn't get them started on it. So they got grass hay, our
Forage Pro product which is soybean based protein supplement and mineral. They did great on it.
BlondeD
Well-known member
What's your process on developing these bulls?? I've got 4 10 month old bulls I need to start. Thanks
Lee VanRoss
Well-known member
- Joined
- Apr 26, 2020
- Messages
- 2,392
- Reaction score
- 2,682
Mine are similar although I am still using penta treated uprights. I have found the feeding floor of the bunk will last much
longer if I drill a 1/2 in hole in each corner to let the rain water out to keep the wood from becoming water logged and thus
decaying. I like the tire idea for a base. Thanks for the photo LVR
Dave
Well-known member
I think I am on my 9th year of using the tire based feed bunks. I have seem a lot of them jumped over, banged around, etc. Only two times have they managed to tip one over. The only problem I have had is loosing a bolt holding the tires together. That just happened a couple times. I cured that by using double nut.
Jeanne - Simme Valley
Well-known member
Lucky - not saying it is "better" in all cases. NY is a dairy state. They have corn ground (pulverized). You cannot find a mill that will actually just CRACK the corn. It is a product that blows away if you feed outdoors. "Generally" WSC is cheaper than having any kind of processing done to the corn.
And, yes, if you are dealing with any kind of "powder" with your cracked corn, the calves can get sick with the powder plugging their fillii (fingers in their stomach). Calves LIKE large particles to eat - like WSC and pellets. They don't like fine ground anything.
When I lived in Kansas, we actually could get cracked corn - no powder - but it cost more.
Most people shy away from WSC because they can SEE the corn in their manure. Cracked corn is there also, just doesn't show up as easily.
And, yes, if you are dealing with any kind of "powder" with your cracked corn, the calves can get sick with the powder plugging their fillii (fingers in their stomach). Calves LIKE large particles to eat - like WSC and pellets. They don't like fine ground anything.
When I lived in Kansas, we actually could get cracked corn - no powder - but it cost more.
Most people shy away from WSC because they can SEE the corn in their manure. Cracked corn is there also, just doesn't show up as easily.
Little Joe
Well-known member
Just curious, do you feed 8% more feed to account for the loss over cracked corn?
Jeanne - Simme Valley
Well-known member
Guess I don't know how to answer that. The cattle are able to utilize 7-8% less because it is whole. We would need @TexasBred to answer that question.
OP
OP
CowboyRam
Well-known member
When my son was raising Boer goats for 4H he had one goat that would not touch any corn with powder in it, we would have to sift out the powder.
OP
OP
CowboyRam
Well-known member
I was talking with dad today and he said when he was working for Warren Livestock in the 60's they fed cake to their calves. I guess they loved the stuff. Would cake be a good option, although I am betting it would be more expensive than corn.
TexasBred
Well-known member
No that's not necessary. To simplify it all Jeanne is pointing out is that the amount of whole corn that passed thru undigested is so minimal it's not worth the extra expense to pay for cracked corn.
Mat Man
Well-known member
Do you all implant the heifers also?
GoWyo
Well-known member
I feed cake after weaning after I get them started on grass hay. Cake is 23-28% protein and some fat, so if you have alfalfa, they probably don't need cake. Oats and corn is what I go with to add energy to the ration if feeding alfalfa. They only need 3-4# of corn and oats to give them a little extra kick without getting too fleshy. If selling backgrounded calves through the sale barn, you don't want them to be fleshy or the price goes down and you've spent good money getting them fleshy only to take a hit on price.
OP
OP
CowboyRam
Well-known member
All my hay I have at the moment is alfalfa. I do have about 15 acres that is thinning, and I have been thinking of no-tilling in some tall fescue into it.
Silver
Well-known member
I don't feed during the months we could get rain, so it was more important to make the trough wide enough to accept a standard size aluminum scoop (grain) shovel to get the snow out. The rest of the year they spend upside down. Always interesting the role geography and climate play in everyday designs.
bird dog
Well-known member
I implant all my calves at first work and all of then again at weaning except the heifers I am retaining. I have kept a few heifers that were implanted twice and they didn't seem to have any issues. The bred on time and calved normally.
As I have mentioned before, I am not willing to spend a bunch of money trying to put on weight on weaned calves. Implants are cheap and easy. My goal is to get them ready to go to a sale that will pay a little extra for long weaned healthy calves that are not to full. I want them eating enough to put on a few pounds but also eating well enough to eat what they feed at the yard and try to minimize my shrink. If I have good grass, the calves will gain about 1 1/2 lbs a day and it pays to keep them as long as you can. They really put on some weight after 45 days. In the late fall and winter, they will only gain about a pound a day on hay and 1% of there body weight of creep fed every other day. At this time of the year it doesn't pay for me to keep them much longer than 40 days. I try to have some oats for them and then my gains will go up, but this year it has been too dry and the oats has not grown enough to do any good.
wbvs58
Well-known member
I had a small patch of lucerne (alfalfa) that I tried on a number of occaisions to drill some summer grasses into it and another time some winter oats and rye. All attempts failed, the seed just didn't want to germinate. There is a word for that but just can't think of it at the moment, ali something maybe someone can help.
Ken
Stocker Steve
Well-known member
1) Doing well is a function of feed cost and yardage and calf size and time of year and market. VOG-COG=? Some years it pays to feed calves, some years it does not pay to feed calves. Know your numbers.
2) Implants are not a silver bullet. They don't work well/at all unless you are at a high er rate of gain. They would have been a waste time with your current ration.
3) As many said - - too much protein. Test your hay and come up with a balanced supplement that will get you into the 2 to 3 pounds per day range. Then rerun your COG number. Yardage eats up any profit at your current ADG.
4) Pay up for a good wormer.
5) Leaving them on the cow longer is a low-cost option if you are not overstocked. Run numbers on that too.
2) Implants are not a silver bullet. They don't work well/at all unless you are at a high er rate of gain. They would have been a waste time with your current ration.
3) As many said - - too much protein. Test your hay and come up with a balanced supplement that will get you into the 2 to 3 pounds per day range. Then rerun your COG number. Yardage eats up any profit at your current ADG.
4) Pay up for a good wormer.
5) Leaving them on the cow longer is a low-cost option if you are not overstocked. Run numbers on that too.
