Calf very lathargic this morning

[faintingridge]

I see they still havent called the vet. Is the calf still alive? You keep asking what you newbies do. What what an old cattleman does when he knows he is in over his head. Call the vet.

Sure hope your not talking to me old timer!! If you read my post clearly, you will see they are doing great!!! Didn't need the exspence of a vet. Some newbies don't need your remarks either and do just fine! Next time I need some advice, as I asked you before, please keep yours to yourself. I don't think I would take it anyways.

To everyone else, I apoligize for the cus word!! Won't happen again.

 

[faintingridge]

ok, point taken. I will edit my post. He started on me at the very beginning of this thread. But your right, he likes to get ya going. I aploligize for the language, your right.

 

[faintingridge]

What in the world is wrong with some of you??? You sound and act like you are the best thing since sliced bread!!!! Why is there a beginners board if all you do is critisize??? You can do all the research in the world on an animal, but when something happens that you didn't think would be so bad, it would be nice to have some POLITE help. But I guess, you never needed help with anything,huh?
If you all don't like newbies here, then don't come to this board, stay with the old time, know it all, always have known it all boards!!!!!!!!!
You got your way, "I'm outta here"

So who do us newbies listen to???
:?:

You're going to have to accept responsibility for this animal, do your research/homework, and decide for yourself. At the risk of sounding like a total be nice - the ideal situation would be if the newbies had the common sense/foresight to do their homework/research prior to acquiring a calf in order to insure they had a clue as to how to take care of said calf! :roll: Said homework/research would include talking to a qualified vet. To me, this is a no-brainer - but that it probably because I was raised with the attitude that you don't get any kind of animal until you know how to take care of it.

 

[ALX.]

You listen to msscamp and Alice, you ignore the other guy.

Everybody knows that, you just gotta give yourself a chance to learn those types of things.

A whole bunch of good folks tried to help you here, lots of excellent information that they either knew or went out and found for you.

Hang around, relax and have fun.

 

[DavisBeefmasters]

As is the case with a lot of life...

"Take with you what works for you and discard the rest"

I like what ALX said... hang around, relax awhile, and have fun -- if you're not having fun, you're not doing it right.

We all start somewhere and I believe when I'm done learning, I'm done... as in for good, since I learn new things every day.

 

[Sir Loin]

OK enough of this BS!
Re:

Do NOT with hold milk replacer when the calves are scouring. Simply add two more feedings inbetween with electrolytes.

That’s BS!
If the calf is sick, and when they have the scours, they are sick, the first sign of scours is they STOP EATING!
And now you say you want to make a calf eat two more meals between his regular meals it won’t even eat.

And just how do you expect to feed a calf 4, or more, meals a day when he won’t even eat two because he is sick?
GET REAL!

Re:

As she said, a baby calf will starve on electrolytes. They need the protein and FAT in the replacer.

And that too is BS!
No calf is going to starve to death from missing one or two meals!!
I’ve seen plenty of new born calves go 24 hrs without any milk while it waited for mammas milk to come down.

I use Kick Start electrolytes and Energy, mixed in water, at the first sign of scours (or a bad sick calf) to replace its regular milk. After using one packet I continue using Kick Start only for 12 hours, then I start mixing it in with it’s milk replacer half and half for the next 12 hours.

I have also used Bounce Back mixed in water for 24 hours straight with no milk replacer given with no adverse effects.

The real question is: What is most likely to kill the calf dehydration or starvation?
IMO it’s dehydration and that is my primary concern and that is what I treat first.

SL

 

[faintingridge]

And that is what I treated first and formost!! Did quite well I might ad. They are doing just fine.

 

[Alice]

OK enough of this BS!
Re:

Do NOT with hold milk replacer when the calves are scouring. Simply add two more feedings inbetween with electrolytes.

That’s BS!
If the calf is sick, and when they have the scours, they are sick, the first sign of scours is they STOP EATING!
And now you say you want to make a calf eat two more meals between his regular meals it won’t even eat.

And just how do you expect to feed a calf 4, or more, meals a day when he won’t even eat two because he is sick?
GET REAL!

Re:

As she said, a baby calf will starve on electrolytes. They need the protein and FAT in the replacer.

And that too is BS!
No calf is going to starve to death from missing one or two meals!!
I’ve seen plenty of new born calves go 24 hrs without any milk while it waited for mammas milk to come down.

I use Kick Start electrolytes and Energy, mixed in water, at the first sign of scours (or a bad sick calf) to replace its regular milk. After using one packet I continue using Kick Start only for 12 hours, then I start mixing it in with it’s milk replacer half and half for the next 12 hours.

I have also used Bounce Back mixed in water for 24 hours straight with no milk replacer given with no adverse effects.

The real question is: What is most likely to kill the calf dehydration or starvation?
IMO it’s dehydration and that is my primary concern and that is what I treat first.

SL

You are wrong...

Alice

 

[Frankie]

Leave calf on milk and add several 2 quart electrolyte feedings per day until scouring slows.

Even though nutrient absorption is incomplete, the calf needs what it can get from the milk.

Old recommendation to take calf off of milk is wrong.

http://www.vetmed.wsu.edu/courses-jmgay ... Scours.htm

 

[TheBullLady]

Sir Loin...
It's been said time after time.. we are all entitled to our opinions, and most of us are trying to be helpful to a "newbie" by answering a question based on our experience.

I haven't lost a bottle calf in over 15 years. My excellent vet in Illinois advised me against that years ago, and it's always worked for me. Obviously, feel free to do things at your place however you think is right. But it would be NICE if you'd cease arguing with everyone that has a different opinion than you do.

 

[faintingridge]

You all can disagree all you want, I listened to someone that said to take them off , so I did. Bottom line, IT WORKED!!
They seemed to be more interested in drinking the electrolyte fluid and not the MR, and now they are nibbling on calf starter, and hay, and seem to be just fine!!! Thank you for all the help, the advice, and the other stuff. Your work here is done, LOL

 

[Sir Loin]

TheBullLady,
Re:

But it would be NICE if you'd cease arguing with everyone that has a different opinion than you do.

Define “arguing” for me.
SL

 

[rockridgecattle]

FR, you asked a for help. We all gave advice. We gave advise based on our experiences and knowledge gained from farming for a few month to many many years. There was alot of good advice given.
One thing i do know is what worked this time might or might not work next time. In as much as we are using experience to fill in the gaps we also realize that this animal we are treating could respond differently. It's a gamble we take everyday.
Do not dismiss the use of a vet so quickly. There will come a time when you have a "big emergency" and there will be no relationship with a vet to "bale out". Vets are available/on call/ all the time. For the most part. If they know you, know your op, know what you have they are more willing to help at 2 am.
That said good job
Remember these two things
1. Farming is much like cooking. No two people make the same recipe the same way. Each adds and takes away according to what works for them.
2.Daily on these boards people are asked to help with a problem animal. Sight unseen, herd health unknown, not knowing if the person asking the question has given all the details etc. We all know what a calf costs to produce. We would be negligent if we did not say "call a vet". The vets are the true "experts". They know what works for your area. We could be next door or in another country. And this makes a world of difference in treating animals.
If the animal did not make it and no one suggested the vet alternative, how would you feel then?

just thoughts

RR

 

[rockridgecattle]

Sir Loin,
I hate the cut and paste thing and you probably wouldn't read it any how sooooo.....
You asked how to get a calf to drink more often when it won't when it is sick.....easy....drench....tube.... what ever you want to call it.
A sick calf needs protien to maintain basic body functions...bio chem 101. Protien provides the energy the body needs to get better, breathe, think, heart beat, walking, bawling, talking, basic cell functions, generate heat or perspire to cool off and what ever else.
Remove the protien and the calf's body will automatically start to first consume any available protien in the muscle for energy to complete basic cell functions. Next the body will turn on to what there is for stored fat for energy. One missed feeding of MR with the protien could make the difference in the end result.

 

[faintingridge]

I breed and raise Myotonic goats here on our farm, I have a very reliable large animal vet that does all our testing, comes out when he is needed, no problem. I don't think everytime an animal is sick you should just call the vet!!
How could anyone afford to raise anything? I asked for help thinking the big time ranchers would suggest home care first, unless it was so horrible you need a doc.
Now, here we are again, being told off in a very pleasant, lets not offend kind of way.
Why doesn't anyone look at peoples profiles before they start giving their oh so humble opinions on vet care, housing, and all the other things that were mentioned. I am new to calves, not animals, not farming, and certainly not LIFE,
Thank You,
ps: I never once said that all the advice and help I recieved was not good. I welcomed it all, just not the mean criticizms. As I said, thank you very much for all the help, I guess some just can't stop themselves from jumping for more!!!!

Oh, and for the record, I have learned that tube feeding should be the absolute last resort and only done by a qualified person!!

 

[Alice]

I breed and raise Myotonic goats here on our farm, I have a very reliable large animal vet that does all our testing, comes out when he is needed, no problem. I don't think everytime an animal is sick you should just call the vet!!
How could anyone afford to raise anything? I asked for help thinking the big time ranchers would suggest home care first, unless it was so horrible you need a doc.
Now, here we are again, being told off in a very pleasant, lets not offend kind of way.
Why doesn't anyone look at peoples profiles before they start giving their oh so humble opinions on vet care, housing, and all the other things that were mentioned. I am new to calves, not animals, not farming, and certainly not LIFE,
Thank You,
ps: I never once said that all the advice and help I recieved was not good. I welcomed it all, just not the mean criticizms. As I said, thank you very much for all the help, I guess some just can't stop themselves from jumping for more!!!!

Oh, and for the record, I have learned that tube feeding should be the absolute last resort and only done by a qualified person!!

When a calf needs to be tubed, believe me, it's always a last resort. It is not enjoyable to the "tuber" or the "tubee."

Now, as for being qualified...with the new tubing equipment of today, it is much less likely that the liquid runs into the lungs. I don't say it can't happen, but it is less likely. And, when a calf is dehydrated and down and in need of electrolytes quickly, and won't suck a bottle, well, even if one isn't "qualified" to tube, it's gotta be done...right then, or the calf will die.

Alice

 

[Sir Loin]

Rockridgecattle
Re:

You asked how to get a calf to drink more often when it won't when it is sick.....easy....drench....tube.... what ever you want to call it.

I don’t thing you are grasping the concept here. It’s simple math!
You can’t put 4 qts of anything in a two qt container!
What part of that don’t you understand?

If when the calf was health and he would only drink 2 qts of milk morning and night to be full, exactly were do you expect 4 more qts of Kick Start or other electrolyte supplement, between feedings, to go? HELLO! The stomach if full of MR!
And if you tube him for sure you will drown him!

Q. If you were stranded in a desert with no water or food, what would kill you first?
Starvation or dehydration?
You may want to start watching Survivor man on TV.
SL

 

[faintingridge]

Ok, I can see that no matter what I say, true, or just learning, you are just going to shoot it down. Alice, you got some serious problems babe!!
"WHATEVER"
Lets see all you big shots raise a herd of goats, THE RIGHT WAY !!!!!

I breed and raise Myotonic goats here on our farm, I have a very reliable large animal vet that does all our testing, comes out when he is needed, no problem. I don't think everytime an animal is sick you should just call the vet!!
How could anyone afford to raise anything? I asked for help thinking the big time ranchers would suggest home care first, unless it was so horrible you need a doc.
Now, here we are again, being told off in a very pleasant, lets not offend kind of way.
Why doesn't anyone look at peoples profiles before they start giving their oh so humble opinions on vet care, housing, and all the other things that were mentioned. I am new to calves, not animals, not farming, and certainly not LIFE,
Thank You,
ps: I never once said that all the advice and help I recieved was not good. I welcomed it all, just not the mean criticizms. As I said, thank you very much for all the help, I guess some just can't stop themselves from jumping for more!!!!

Oh, and for the record, I have learned that tube feeding should be the absolute last resort and only done by a qualified person!!

When a calf needs to be tubed, believe me, it's always a last resort. It is not enjoyable to the "tuber" or the "tubee."

Now, as for being qualified...with the new tubing equipment of today, it is much less likely that the liquid runs into the lungs. I don't say it can't happen, but it is less likely. And, when a calf is dehydrated and down and in need of electrolytes quickly, and won't suck a bottle, well, even if one isn't "qualified" to tube, it's gotta be done...right then, or the calf will die.

Alice