Calf very lathargic this morning

[faintingridge]

got a problem I think with the he/she calf. I went out to feed this morning and she wouldn't get up at first. She wouldn't even move, just breathing.I moved her head and it just flopped over. If she wasn't breathing you would have thought she was dead! Then I tried again to move her and her whole head just fell to the other side. So I held her head in one hand, and put the nipple in with the other and she starting eating right away. I got her to stand on her own using the bottle, she drank the whole thing, walked around a minute or two, then went right back to laying down. Any ideas??
Also, I haven't seen hardly any crap at all. Maybe once since they have been home.
Thanks
ps: Please don't forget I am a newbie here ;-)

 

[faintingridge]

Just checked on her again, still very, very, weak!

 

[dun]

What is her temperature?

 

[faintingridge]

102.8

 

[Alice]

Give the calf some electrolytes right now. The calf could be scoured. I know you haven't seen any poop, but scours can be so severe and watery that what you think is where the calf peed is really where it's scoured.

Alice

 

[faintingridge]

I will do it right now, thank you.

 

[rockridgecattle]

i would also give a sulfa drug of some sort for scours. We use trivetrin or trimidox plus calf span boluses. If you have none of these LA200 a shot and call the vet to get some drugs asap...even though it is sunday

 

[dun]

102.8 is more or less in the normal range for a calf. If you mentioned it I don;t recall, but what are you feeding it for milk/milk replacer? I agree that it won;t hurt to hit with something for scours. Check it for dehydration. Seems there is a test of pinch/pulling the skin and seeing if it returns to it's previous condition. Don't remember off hand since I've never done it.

 

[KNERSIE]

102.8 is more or less in the normal range for a calf. If you mentioned it I don;t recall, but what are you feeding it for milk/milk replacer? I agree that it won;t hurt to hit with something for scours. Check it for dehydration. Seems there is a test of pinch/pulling the skin and seeing if it returns to it's previous condition. Don't remember off hand since I've never done it.

if the pinched area stay tented and don't go back to normal position immediately the calf is dehydrated. The eyes will also be sunken.

 

[dun]

102.8 is more or less in the normal range for a calf. If you mentioned it I don;t recall, but what are you feeding it for milk/milk replacer? I agree that it won;t hurt to hit with something for scours. Check it for dehydration. Seems there is a test of pinch/pulling the skin and seeing if it returns to it's previous condition. Don't remember off hand since I've never done it.

if the pinched area stay tented and don't go back to normal position immediately the calf is dehydrated. The eyes will also be sunken.

Thanks, I knew somebody would explain it better then I did

 

[larryshoat]

Good advice from all that have posted.Alice is right about the dehydration .This calf has probably lost somewhere between 6-8% of its body weight from scours.That would equal about 1 gallon of water.You need that much just to catch up.I would give her a quart of clear warm water every hour for 4 hours between milk feedings daytime, then 2 quarts water before you go to bed.The 102.8 is a close call. I would think in this case it would be on the upper end of normal. I think what rockridge was talking about is what we call in the U.S. sulfa-trim.I would add to that baytril and dexamethasone.

Larry

 

[Alice]

Good advice from all that have posted.Alice is right about the dehydration .This calf has probably lost somewhere between 6-8% of its body weight from scours.That would equal about 1 gallon of water.You need that much just to catch up.I would give her a quart of clear warm water every hour for 4 hours between milk feedings daytime, then 2 quarts water before you go to bed.The 102.8 is a close call. I would think in this case it would be on the upper end of normal. I think what rockridge was talking about is what we call in the U.S. sulfa-trim.I would add to that baytril and dexamethasone.

Larry

Larry, I'm gonna have to disagree with ya' about the amount of water to give the calf. That seems like an awful lot all at once. And, I think it's necessary for the water to contain electrolytes because the calf is suffering not only from dehydration but electrolyte imbalance as well.

Were it me, aside from giving the calf something for the scours...and deciding what to give is a crap shoot (pardon the pun) at best...I would alternate feedings every 3 or 4 hours of electrolytes and milk replacer. Example: 2 pints of milk replacer...in 3 hours 2 pints of electrolytes...that's after the initial 4 pints of electrolytes to get the calf going again.

We've pretty much decided that overfeeding liquid can cause problems with the calf's ability to digest that amount...especially if it is a small calf. Not everyone will agree, but we've had really good luck feeding in mixing the milk replacer with less water...as much as 2 pints less water. I read that somewhere once when I was at my wits end with scours...the first time I read it was on a Canadian extension service website. I've begun to read this more and more on other calf health websites.

Also, fainting ridge...Probios, Probios, Probios...give that baby Probios! And, realize, too, that not all baby calves make it no matter our very best efforts.

Alice

 

[rockridgecattle]

i dunno if this is a good idea but we have not killed a calf doing this, and the electrolytes we use it seems to be okay.
In the beginning, first drench, if the calf needs both replacer and electrolyes we mix together we just add more water and cut back on the replacer for the first sick feeding. It's worked for us. We don't do it for every feeding just if the calf needs both the food and the elctrolyes right away. Then we would alternate. We have found that usually one treatment of elctrolyes gets them responding and re hydrated from scours. but then when scour season hits we are on it like white on rice and are probably more apt to over treat. When I say over treat I mean if a calf looks at us funny we will drop them and treat them just cause it spreads through a herd of young calves so quickly. So in this case we would just use electrolyes cause they are still on the momma. But a bottle calf we would combine just to get the sufficient energy and rebalance of their system done as quickly as possible.

 

[larryshoat]

Good advice from all that have posted.Alice is right about the dehydration .This calf has probably lost somewhere between 6-8% of its body weight from scours.That would equal about 1 gallon of water.You need that much just to catch up.I would give her a quart of clear warm water every hour for 4 hours between milk feedings daytime, then 2 quarts water before you go to bed.The 102.8 is a close call. I would think in this case it would be on the upper end of normal. I think what rockridge was talking about is what we call in the U.S. sulfa-trim.I would add to that baytril and dexamethasone.

Larry

Larry, I'm gonna have to disagree with ya' about the amount of water to give the calf. That seems like an awful lot all at once. And, I think it's necessary for the water to contain electrolytes because the calf is suffering not only from dehydration but electrolyte imbalance as well.

Were it me, aside from giving the calf something for the scours...and deciding what to give is a crap shoot (pardon the pun) at best...I would alternate feedings every 3 or 4 hours of electrolytes and milk replacer. Example: 2 pints of milk replacer...in 3 hours 2 pints of electrolytes...that's after the initial 4 pints of electrolytes to get the calf going again.

We've pretty much decided that overfeeding liquid can cause problems with the calf's ability to digest that amount...especially if it is a small calf. Not everyone will agree, but we've had really good luck feeding in mixing the milk replacer with less water...as much as 2 pints less water. I read that somewhere once when I was at my wits end with scours...the first time I read it was on a Canadian extension service website. I've begun to read this more and more on other calf health websites.

Also, fainting ridge...Probios, Probios, Probios...give that baby Probios! And, realize, too, that not all baby calves make it no matter our very best efforts.

Alice

I think we agree more than you might think.This calf is probably close to 1 gallon low on water.That does not include what she is losing as we go.Usually in this situation I would give lactated ringers under the skin in the neck as much as 3000ml in 24hrs.Problem,I don't think from the sounds of it this raiser has lactated ringers and on a sunday not likely to get it .I like your idea on the milk.If we disagree slightly on something it may be the electrolytes.I use electrolytes usually once per day and use clear water the rest of the time.I don't think we hear much about clear water for rehydration because there is nothing to sell,water is next to free.I'm convinced the calf dies not from lack of electrolytes but from lack of water

 

[Alice]

Good advice from all that have posted.Alice is right about the dehydration .This calf has probably lost somewhere between 6-8% of its body weight from scours.That would equal about 1 gallon of water.You need that much just to catch up.I would give her a quart of clear warm water every hour for 4 hours between milk feedings daytime, then 2 quarts water before you go to bed.The 102.8 is a close call. I would think in this case it would be on the upper end of normal. I think what rockridge was talking about is what we call in the U.S. sulfa-trim.I would add to that baytril and dexamethasone.

Larry

Larry, I'm gonna have to disagree with ya' about the amount of water to give the calf. That seems like an awful lot all at once. And, I think it's necessary for the water to contain electrolytes because the calf is suffering not only from dehydration but electrolyte imbalance as well.

Were it me, aside from giving the calf something for the scours...and deciding what to give is a crap shoot (pardon the pun) at best...I would alternate feedings every 3 or 4 hours of electrolytes and milk replacer. Example: 2 pints of milk replacer...in 3 hours 2 pints of electrolytes...that's after the initial 4 pints of electrolytes to get the calf going again.

We've pretty much decided that overfeeding liquid can cause problems with the calf's ability to digest that amount...especially if it is a small calf. Not everyone will agree, but we've had really good luck feeding in mixing the milk replacer with less water...as much as 2 pints less water. I read that somewhere once when I was at my wits end with scours...the first time I read it was on a Canadian extension service website. I've begun to read this more and more on other calf health websites.

Also, fainting ridge...Probios, Probios, Probios...give that baby Probios! And, realize, too, that not all baby calves make it no matter our very best efforts.

Alice

I think we agree more than you might think.This calf is probably close to 1 gallon low on water.That does not include what she is losing as we go.Usually in this situation I would give lactated ringers under the skin in the neck as much as 3000ml in 24hrs.Problem,I don't think from the sounds of it this raiser has lactated ringers and on a sunday not likely to get it .I like your idea on the milk.If we disagree slightly on something it may be the electrolytes.I use electrolytes usually once per day and use clear water the rest of the time.I don't think we hear much about clear water for rehydration because there is nothing to sell,water is next to free.I'm convinced the calf dies not from lack of electrolytes but from lack of water

I'm not discounting that water is an absolute must...but remember, there is water in the milk replacer.

Like I said, I'm not discounting what works for you, I just don't have the guts to tempt fate and not use electrolytes.

I will say this, however. I don't worry nearly as much about the baby calves that begin drinking water from their water buckets within the first week of their precarious little holstein bull lives...that's what I raised...holstein bull babies, and no more fickle animal you will find. :lol:

Alice

 

[faintingridge]

Well, at this point, I am holding her head in my lap, and letting the electrolyte fluid just run down her throat. She seems to be able to swollow a little bit still.
I started this reply an hour ago, it is now 7:30 and she got up a few minutes ago, then back down, and the same thing. She can't seem to keep her head up : (
I have to go to work tonight, hope she makes it through the night.

 

[faintingridge]

Just came in from giving more fluids. The skin at the back of her neck seemed to snap right back, ??? Her temp is normal, she is shaking every now and then. Man, I'm tired, lol. Gotta go to work at 10:30 till 7 Hope she makes it through the night : (
We are just suqirting the fluids down her throat now, she isn't strong enough to suck.
If she makes it through the night, the vet will come out in the am.

 

[larryshoat]

Sorry about your trouble faintingridge.I know how hard you have worked on this calf.Raising baby calves is a skill that takes some time to learn.I think you would be better off starting with a healthy 90 lb holstein calf.Scours are just a fact of life for the calf raiser.Reyhdration is your main defense, start early.The calfs gut works by osmosis. Since the composition of the calfs body is about 12 1/2% solids,anything we put in the calf that is wetter than 12 1/2% solids rehydrates the calf,anything drier pulls water from the calf.8oz of milk powder in 2qt water is about 12 1/2% solids this needs to be that way for proper formation of curd.I would love to have all the calves that could have been saved with timely rehdration therapy, the type is not as important being early and using enough.

Larry

 

[faintingridge]

I think she may have went down so fast because she is only a 30lb. calf the lady said on Friday when I got her. Very thin twins.

 

[msscamp]

got a problem I think with the he/she calf. I went out to feed this morning and she wouldn't get up at first. She wouldn't even move, just breathing.I moved her head and it just flopped over. If she wasn't breathing you would have thought she was dead! Then I tried again to move her and her whole head just fell to the other side.

You've got a major problem with this calf, and you need to get a handle on it or she will be dead!

So I held her head in one hand, and put the nipple in with the other and she starting eating right away. I got her to stand on her own using the bottle, she drank the whole thing, walked around a minute or two, then went right back to laying down. Any ideas??

How much milk are you feeding? How often? Is her breathing labored? Is she rattling while sucking her bottle? Do you have grain/hay available for her? Is it good quality, vs dusty/moldy? Is she eating it?

Also, I haven't seen hardly any crap at all. Maybe once since they have been home.

That tells me that she is not getting enough to eat/won't eat due to an underlying health problem.