Calf pictures - My son's show project
- Thread starter Arkieman
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bigbull338
Well-known member
i love those pivs.you can see the smirk on his face.like well here i am.what do you think about me.
funky 4-Her
Well-known member
Thats a nice looking steer you got there
Arkieman
Well-known member
Still a bull - which may explain his "attitude". We call him Dink after my Grandpa that raised Herefords before $9.00/bushel soybeans helped him decide to become a row-crop farmer!! lol...I think he should've stayed w/ the cattle - that's where his heart was. After retirement and before he passed away, he and I messed around with some stockers during the summers. I have some great memories....
dieselbeef
Well-known member
sooory! deleted the post. guess you didnt really want criticism...just praise!
beautiful steer. one o...never mind
beautiful steer. one o...never mind
certherfbeef
Well-known member
dieselbeef":3fidzgb8 said:
Leave him alone. The calf is going to be a 4-H steer. Doomed to be fed out. If you feel the need to ALWAYS say something negative then pick on someone your own size. NOT a kid's bred and owned project.
dieselbeef
Well-known member
my apologies...geez.
Arkieman
Well-known member
dieselbeef":2booc4mg said:
If the "you" in your post was referring to me, where did you get that from? Go ahead - I'm a man, give me your opinion.... I didn't see your unedited post, but I guess there was some reference to eye cancer? Could you explain?
Also, certherbeff, how should I take "doomed to be fed out"??? Should that be taken as criticism also???
dieselbeef
Well-known member
it was directed back to certherbeef...no offense to you or your son
Arkieman
Well-known member
Thanks for all the comments, good/bad/indifferent. I welcome the critical. I really don't see how you can learn if someone doesn't point it out. I realize he is a very young calf and time will show the good, the bad and the ugly! lol. I posted a thread on the show board on what makes for the "perfect bull", but only received the obligatory "what works in the pasture" - which I don't disagree with, but I was hoping to find out some key areas that judges look for.... Most know a nice looking animal when they see one, but what areas (to you) seperate the "men from the boys"??
backhoeboogie
Well-known member
Arkieman":sitid433 said:
Arkie it is hard to tell. Everyone of us want something different.
I have seen some really good looking bulls throw a bunch of ugly calves. For me the choice of bull has to do with what his offspring look like more so than what the bull looks like.
What I want is a bull that throws 80 lb calves that are consistently nice calves. I'd rather have a 70 lb calf than a 90 lb calf. I don't want to have to put a feed bucket in front of the bull ever. Just want to run him on pasture and he maintain good BCS on that alone.
I am still running a brangus bull because I am trying to build the herd up. In this Texas climate it takes cows with ears. Once the herd size gets to where it needs to be, I will switch to a popular bull for the sale barn. Who knows what that will be at the time. Anyway, this brangus bull throws 70 to 80 lb calves that are good growers. They have all been consistent to. It is going to be hard for me to part with him when the time comes. This bull has an excellent attitude and has done well all the way around.
The best bull I have ever seen was a baldy out of a cross. That was about 25 years ago. I'd pay a lot of nickels for a bull like that one. His calves fetched top dollar at every sale.
ilfarmer92
Well-known member
Arkieman, I would agree with cert. I would definitly steer him. Doesn't look like a herd bull to me. Let your son take him to the 4-H show. Also some county shows. See how he looks, maybe you can take him to the state fair (he'd have to change alot though to competed at my state fair). In the end he will be beef. And I've heard that stuff taste good. 
What is his breeding?
What is his breeding?
Arkieman
Well-known member
I would appreciate reasons why he should be a steer? Also, I just don't see how anyone could say at one month old what a calf will or won't be. If someone can, I would like to know what you are looking at to come to this conclusion.
Thanks
Thanks
Keren
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In a one month old calf I look for:
- correctness of skeletal structure; correct angulation in feet and legs, well laid in shoulders, strong topline, correct hip to pin angulation
- length of body, depth of body, pelvic and chest capacity
- topline sloping down slightly from rear end to shoulder, indicating potential for lots of growth
- large ears - indication of how big the animal will grow
- muscling will come later; assess again at weaning
- rate of growth; I like my calves to be born tiddlers and then grow like all hell
- in a bull's case, even testicles, tight sheath
I response to your post about what makes a good show bull . . .
all of the above plus plenty of muscling - muscle and width along the topline because this is where the expensive cuts of meat come from, muscling in the hind quarter and rump, a 'bully' head and well developed crest (from 12 - 16 mths usually starts) indicating testosterone, tight, not muscular sheath, large testicles.
All too often I have found that what makes a good show bull isn't necessarily what makes a good breeding bull that I would use. A bull I would be using, because I am in the seedstock industry, has structural soundness and fertility traits, but I would take long, deep and soft (easy doing) over highly muscled, harsh and hard keeping bulls. In my experience the show ring winners are the bulls that have the maximum muscle, large butts, and are often too coarse in the shoulder for my liking and don't have the softness I look for. These are the type of bulls that breed excellent steers and excellent steer bulls, but just aren't quite right for my breeding program.
Your bull calf appears to have correct leg structure, a strong topline, quite a bit of length. I cannot tell about the shoulders, he mights possible need some more depth of body. i would think he will grow out to be my type of bull, rather than one with extremes of muscling. Both types of bull have value, depending on what operation you are running and what your objectives are.
- correctness of skeletal structure; correct angulation in feet and legs, well laid in shoulders, strong topline, correct hip to pin angulation
- length of body, depth of body, pelvic and chest capacity
- topline sloping down slightly from rear end to shoulder, indicating potential for lots of growth
- large ears - indication of how big the animal will grow
- muscling will come later; assess again at weaning
- rate of growth; I like my calves to be born tiddlers and then grow like all hell
- in a bull's case, even testicles, tight sheath
I response to your post about what makes a good show bull . . .
all of the above plus plenty of muscling - muscle and width along the topline because this is where the expensive cuts of meat come from, muscling in the hind quarter and rump, a 'bully' head and well developed crest (from 12 - 16 mths usually starts) indicating testosterone, tight, not muscular sheath, large testicles.
All too often I have found that what makes a good show bull isn't necessarily what makes a good breeding bull that I would use. A bull I would be using, because I am in the seedstock industry, has structural soundness and fertility traits, but I would take long, deep and soft (easy doing) over highly muscled, harsh and hard keeping bulls. In my experience the show ring winners are the bulls that have the maximum muscle, large butts, and are often too coarse in the shoulder for my liking and don't have the softness I look for. These are the type of bulls that breed excellent steers and excellent steer bulls, but just aren't quite right for my breeding program.
Your bull calf appears to have correct leg structure, a strong topline, quite a bit of length. I cannot tell about the shoulders, he mights possible need some more depth of body. i would think he will grow out to be my type of bull, rather than one with extremes of muscling. Both types of bull have value, depending on what operation you are running and what your objectives are.
oakcreekfarms
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I would say for the most part you are looking to much into young calves. Some sires calves really hit it before weaning and out perform the last two months prior.
Arkieman
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Keren that was perfect - exactly what I was looking for.
When you speak of:
Have you found anything on the internet (perhaps with illustrations) that define what these traits should look like?
Thanks
When you speak of:
Have you found anything on the internet (perhaps with illustrations) that define what these traits should look like?
Thanks
crossbreed curt
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nice calf ;-)
Keren
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Arkieman, these pictures aren't the greatest but they might help illustrate correct and incorrect leg structure:
Rear leg angulation from the side. 1 - correct angulation. A line can be drawn from the pin bone to through the point of the hock to the dewclaw. 2 - sickle-hocked. Legs are too far under the body and in turn place extra strain on the muscles and bones of the stifle joint, hips and legs. 3 - post legged. Legs are too far back (too little angle) and place extra strain on the stifle joint and surrounding muscles, ligaments and tendons. In a bull, post legged is a serious problem as too much pressure is placed on the joints when he mounts a female. Sickle hocked isn't quite so bad.
Front legs 1 - correct structure. The legs come out from the centre of the shoulder and straight down to the ground. Body weight is distributed evenly on the legs, feet and joints. 2 - splay footed or toed out. Knees are closer than normal and from the knee down the legs twist outward. 3 - pigeon toed or toed in. Knees are wider apart than normal and legs are bowed in appearance. Of the two faults, toed in is more serious in a bull because it tends to cause a coarse and protruding shoulder, while a slight degree of toed out is acceptable and sometimes advantageous in a bull as it tucks the shoulders in.
1 - Correct hind leg structure. Legs come out from the centre of the hindquarter and straight down to the ground. Body weight is distributed equally. 2 - cow hocked. common fault. Hocks are closer than normal and the toes turn outward. 3 - bow-legged. Hocks are wider than normal and the toes are closer.
As far as the other points: strong topline - look for a nice straight spine without dips. Shoulders should be smooth and the animal should flow nicely from the neck to shoulder to body without any jutty bits. Hips to pins - most judges will look for the hips and pins to be fairly level. I like to have the pins slightly lower than the hips to help in calving. Also width between the hips and between the pins, and length from hip to pin is indicative of pelvic capacity. Note in the diagrams above the pins, or hooks, are actually higher than the hips. This is not good - it can lead to both calving problems and more importantly urine pooling.
These diagrams and descriptions come from an excellent book called Beef Cattle: Breeding, Feeding and Showing by Lucy Newham
Also, regarding the comment about looking for too much in young calves, experience with both cattle and goats has shown me that what an animal looks like in the first few days of its life is what it will end up looking like. Arkieman was speaking about a one month old calf, so I referred to that age. But I continually assess calves, and I actually find that to my eyes, calves look best at 4 - 5 mths just before weaning, and then they begin to get a bit more gangly and out of proportion.
Arkieman, hope this all helps.
Rear leg angulation from the side. 1 - correct angulation. A line can be drawn from the pin bone to through the point of the hock to the dewclaw. 2 - sickle-hocked. Legs are too far under the body and in turn place extra strain on the muscles and bones of the stifle joint, hips and legs. 3 - post legged. Legs are too far back (too little angle) and place extra strain on the stifle joint and surrounding muscles, ligaments and tendons. In a bull, post legged is a serious problem as too much pressure is placed on the joints when he mounts a female. Sickle hocked isn't quite so bad.
Front legs 1 - correct structure. The legs come out from the centre of the shoulder and straight down to the ground. Body weight is distributed evenly on the legs, feet and joints. 2 - splay footed or toed out. Knees are closer than normal and from the knee down the legs twist outward. 3 - pigeon toed or toed in. Knees are wider apart than normal and legs are bowed in appearance. Of the two faults, toed in is more serious in a bull because it tends to cause a coarse and protruding shoulder, while a slight degree of toed out is acceptable and sometimes advantageous in a bull as it tucks the shoulders in.
1 - Correct hind leg structure. Legs come out from the centre of the hindquarter and straight down to the ground. Body weight is distributed equally. 2 - cow hocked. common fault. Hocks are closer than normal and the toes turn outward. 3 - bow-legged. Hocks are wider than normal and the toes are closer.
As far as the other points: strong topline - look for a nice straight spine without dips. Shoulders should be smooth and the animal should flow nicely from the neck to shoulder to body without any jutty bits. Hips to pins - most judges will look for the hips and pins to be fairly level. I like to have the pins slightly lower than the hips to help in calving. Also width between the hips and between the pins, and length from hip to pin is indicative of pelvic capacity. Note in the diagrams above the pins, or hooks, are actually higher than the hips. This is not good - it can lead to both calving problems and more importantly urine pooling.
These diagrams and descriptions come from an excellent book called Beef Cattle: Breeding, Feeding and Showing by Lucy Newham
Also, regarding the comment about looking for too much in young calves, experience with both cattle and goats has shown me that what an animal looks like in the first few days of its life is what it will end up looking like. Arkieman was speaking about a one month old calf, so I referred to that age. But I continually assess calves, and I actually find that to my eyes, calves look best at 4 - 5 mths just before weaning, and then they begin to get a bit more gangly and out of proportion.
Arkieman, hope this all helps.
