Calf Jack question

[Arthur]

We had a calf born 1/17/05. In WI it had just turned bitter cold that day. The calf was backwards and we had an emergency call to the vet and he pulled her with a calf jack. We had a nice bedding of straw and she was in a loafing shed with part of it tarped and out of the wind. The vet said she would be fine and the mother would lick her dry. About 2 hours later the calf was very cold and still damp and frozen. We brought her into the house and a friend came over and milked the cow and got 2 quarts and we tubed the calf. Got her all warm and put her back with mom and put heat lamps on. We worked with this calf daily to keep her warm and moving and eating from mom. Her hooves were backwards when born and the fronts went correct after a day and the back ones took about 4 days and we worked with getting them straight. She really was doing very well. But her lower legs and hooves were always very cold. We had some real bitter weather here. She got a little cold and the vet came out and couldn't believe how well she was doing very strong and healthy. This isn't the vet that delivered her, we got no help from him after the birth. For the cold she was given Baytril. The next day she seemed to have swellen legs and the vet said to give her penicillian - 10cc twice a day. She was getting worse not better and he came out and looked and did not know that she was pulled with a calf jack. He mentioned that he could see where the chains were put and that the blood vessels were crushed and that without an extremely warm barn and this paste he had, she probably will not make it. We decided to just leave her be and see how she does over the weekend because warmer weather is here. She is getting around but holds her legs in the air after walking a bit. She does seem to be getting around better now. She still is getting up and nursing but does lay down a lot. Might anyone have had this type of experience and have any imput at all? Just looking for suggestions.

 

[jkwilson]

Pulling a breach is hard on the calf and cow. You can't expect the cow to be a great mother immediately after such an experience. It is also rough on a calf's legs, and they usually are a little slow to come around. We usually try to back off as quickly as possible after an assisted delivery, but we watch to see if the cow is mothering. If not, you've got to get the calf dry right away, and get its belly full of colostrum soon. We don't calve until March to reduce the weather strain on the newborns.
You may not get the best advice from a vet out on an emergency call. You would probably have gotten more help and better advice from an experienced cattleman or cattlewoman in this case.
Baytril is an antibiotic, has nothing to do with cold tolerance.

 

[Arthur]

Baytril was given for a cough and slightly runny nose from the vet. I know my post got long and may have not sounded as I intended. We understand now how bad of a time of year it was to calve and have learned a big lesson. The cow was in heat at the time and in asking around we were told that a clean, dry area and out of the wind we would have no problems calving that time of year. Even the vet said the same. The weather turned for the extreme worse the day she was born and about a good solid week after.

 

[dun]

If you hadn't had to jack the calf, dry and out of the wind is about all that's required. We calve later for my comfort more then the calves

dun

 

[jkwilson]

The weather turned for the extreme worse the day she was born and about a good solid week after.

It never fails. Two years in a row we had a calf born on the coldest day of the year. Once it was January 31st at 13 below, pulled the calf and had to take him in the garage to warm up. He walked with his legs folded under for a week. Probably would have kept him as a bull except for his BW and problems with his legs. My step-son won the county fair with him as a steer. The next year it was March 10th, with a cow that was away from the house. I stopped to check them and saw she was in labor, so I went to the neighbor's to call my wife to bring towels. That heifer's still in our herd.

 

[Arthur]

Probably would have kept him as a bull except for his BW and problems with his legs.

What type of leg problems? Did they freeze because of the cold? Being bent over like they were? No circulation and cold on top of it? As long as our calf is able to get up and eat and seems very alert we will hope for the best and maybe she can pull through.

 

[jkwilson]

What type of leg problems? Did they freeze because of the cold? Being bent over like they were? No circulation and cold on top of it? As long as our calf is able to get up and eat and seems very alert we will hope for the best and maybe she can pull through.

Long delivery causes circulation to be cut off to front legs. Made worse by pulling the calf. We just didn't want to have a bull with any doubts as to his soundness.

 

[Arthur]

Long delivery causes circulation to be cut off to front legs. Made worse by pulling the calf. We just didn't want to have a bull with any doubts as to his soundness.

Sorry for the questions, but you seemed to have a similar problem. When it was a calf did it take awhile to come around or because of what you knew it went through you knew there was some doubt. I just ask because I wonder if we are doing the right thing just waiting to see if she can pull through and wonder why she lifts her legs like she does.........is she is pain or numb or is there actually some feeling there?

 

[sidney411]

I have used chains when I have pulled calves but I have seen some nylon straps the you double half hitch above and below the hock, I think, that are supposed to be easier on the calf. Has anyone used these before? Do you like them better then the chains?

 

[dun]

I tried the straps once. With my stiff fingers I couldn't manipulate them very well and they don't feel very distinctive when they're inside the cow, compared to chains anywya. Chains are also a lot easier to sanatize afterwards.

dun

 

[jkwilson]

[When it was a calf did it take awhile to come around or because of what you knew it went through you knew there was some doubt. I just ask because I wonder if we are doing the right thing just waiting to see if she can pull through and wonder why she lifts her legs like she does.........is she is pain or numb or is there actually some feeling there?

He did take a awhile to move freely. I think the vet gave him a couple of steroid shots during the process. If she's up and feeding, you're most of the way there.

 

[Jeanne - Simme Valley]

Like Dun, we have a set of straps, very awkward, hard to get handles attached, we NEVER use them. Always use chains if needed.
Back to the calf jack. Whether you use a jack, chains or straps, you need to make a half hitch above & below the dew claws. You MUST not pull for long periods of time, relax & loosen the chains a little if it takes a long time to get the calf out.
The chains, strap/baling twine cuts off the circulation if pressure is kept on it for long time. I mean, inbetween cows labor pushes (which is only time you should be pulling) let up on the pressure a little.
I saw a calf that was a hard pull, it had a hard time getting around, but did OK. Than one day when it was a month or two old, the owner saw blood on the hairline of his hoof. Well, after close exam - the hoof never grew, and his ankle was still growning so it was starting to lose his hoof. Sent him to slaughter right away.
Made us super aware of cutting off the circulation to the hooves.

 

[Arthur]

We noticed the calves hoof around 3:00 in the afternoon and the vet probably came around 5:30 or after. He put the chains on and pulled until she came out.

Yesterday we noticed that it looked like on both back legs the dew claws were red and the inside hoof was worn away. Which seems odd. Now I am wondering about the post above with the bone growing and not the hoof. I am sure the calf had major circulation problems with the problems at birth and the extreme cold we had. It is just that after 4 - 5 days this calf was like any healthy newborn calf romping and playing and running around. Than she got the Baytril for a cough and went downhill. Can they have an allergic reaction to the Baytril?

 

[jerry27150]

i have had a couple of calves that way (born on a freezing night without pulling) hind feet just fell off after a month or so. they also walked like it hurt & layed around after they were a few days or so old. our vet said he once had one that froze off three feet but still growed big enough to eat. one of mine died on its own, the other i finally felt so sorry for i put him out of his misery

 

[Arthur]

The hooves fell off of the calf this weekend. We put her down. She was so strong otherwise it was very sad.

 

[joe]

So sorry Arthur. It's tough when you put alot of work into getting them going. THe Mrs. pitches a fit when that happens too...."I spent 5 days helping it walk/eat/etc....." sometimes I have to remind her she isn't God, and they can't all be saved>

 

[Arthur]

I want to thank all of you for your responses. It really helped, and all of you were so understand and have been through so much yourselves. It was nice to find this site to be able to discuss what was going on and get some answers to questions and thoughts we had. Mom cow is not a happy camper. It is sad to hear her carrying on. Thanks again.

 

[jerry27150]

sometimes mother nature knows best & there is nothing you can do.

 

[dun]

When I hear of these types of things my usual response is "expletive deleted". It's alwasy tougher if you've had to nurse or mess with one, but sometimes the hard choices are the right choices.

dun

 

[Arthur]

Yes, you are right. It would have been easier for all involved.