Calculators and Cattle Feed

[Twisted]

Just wondering, how many ranchers here actually test for and thoroughly examine the numbers related to the nutritional value of their cattle feed and hay to try to find the right formula for efficiency for feed cost and daily gain. Or do the majority here just use the cows to keep the grass down and take what you can get at the sale barn when there's no grass left? Every area of the country is different in the nutritional value of their readily available feed stuffs. For example, I can feed cotton seed where I live fairly economically where other higher protein feeds more readily available in other parts of the country are not very cost effective here because of the cost of shipping. Do you test your hay and/or grass to help with deciding on the proper balance of supplemental feed or just let it ride and hope for the best?

 

[kenny thomas]

I test first and second cutting hay an keep the best for weaned calves. I test my stockpile fescue once in December but this year am going to try to test in January and February also.
Cows never get any supplement. Buy some commercial 16% feed to wean and background calves. Because of health issues might not background any calves this winter.

 

[bird dog]

It varies year to year but there is one constant, my hay is not very good. I can test it a hundred times and it still isn't. Old depleted cotton land is tough to make better. I deal with what I got. I don't feed cubes. I have 10 year old cows that I have raised that have never seen a cube, I do use some protein tubs through the winter along with my marginal hay. Stocking rate is whats critical and it changes year to year.

 

[gcreekrch]

Hard to know where you're at if you don't test.

 

[BC]

I test my various hay cuttings to know the nutrient value of the hay. It lets me know what cutting to feed to dry cows and what to feed to cows nursing calves. It also lets me plan if I need to supplement because of low quality or not. That supplementation can be planting ryegrass to limit graze or using 28% DDG cubes.

 

[anewcomer]

Amen, gcreek!

 

[chevytaHOE5674]

I've never tested a thing. Cows that can't hack it on the grass/hay provided catch a ride on the truck. Cows that thrive are candidates to keep replacements from.

Only group that ever gets any supplemental feed is replacement heifers after weaning to get them used to people and making them easier to work.

 

[Lucky]

We try to test our hay and use a calculator to see how much to supplement according to cow gestation. Our feed supplier works with us for an ecnomical mix and provides a break down on the feed we choose.

I've noticed that cows can survive and get through the winter on just about any hay or feed you throw at them. The benifit of testing the feed and getting them what they really need comes when they calve and it's time to breed back.

 

[Mark Reynolds]

It varies year to year but there is one constant, my hay is not very good. I can test it a hundred times and it still isn't. Old depleted cotton land is tough to make better. I deal with what I got. I don't feed cubes. I have 10 year old cows that I have raised that have never seen a cube, I do use some protein tubs through the winter along with my marginal hay. Stocking rate is whats critical and it changes year to year.

@bird dog, from what you are saying, I'm guessing your organic matter is quite low. Are you interseeding with annuals or cover crops?

 

[Mark Reynolds]

Just wondering, how many ranchers here actually test for and thoroughly examine the numbers related to the nutritional value of their cattle feed and hay to try to find the right formula for efficiency for feed cost and daily gain. Or do the majority here just use the cows to keep the grass down and take what you can get at the sale barn when there's no grass left? Every area of the country is different in the nutritional value of their readily available feed stuffs. For example, I can feed cotton seed where I live fairly economically where other higher protein feeds more readily available in other parts of the country are not very cost effective here because of the cost of shipping. Do you test your hay and/or grass to help with deciding on the proper balance of supplemental feed or just let it ride and hope for the best?

@Twisted, it's going to depend on a variety of factors. @kenny thomas tests/monitors on a very regular basis, both his hay and his pasture. Where he is located, it is probably always good enough. If you are up where @Jeanne - Simme Valley is, you don't need to test there either, although her pasture is typically buried in snow for 6 months out of the year. She doesn't ever need protein tubs. If you are down where @Warren Allison and @Ebenezer are, your pastures are always accessible although your protein levels in you pastures drop too low. Your hay needs tested to check your protein levels unless you have some of @Warren Allison's ultra-fertilized Bermuda, and kudzu . Out west where @Dave is, it's seasonal and he probably always feeds supplement/protein tubs, at least on a seasonal basis.

Depending on where you are, if your pastures and hay are variable, you need to adjust what you are feeding to each class of animal depending on its growth/development/gestational stage it is in and what your operation consists of. Cow/calf, stockers, commercial, show, breed stock, etc. I'm quoting Jim Garish again: "It depends"

I missed the South-West. Who is there?

 

[Twisted]

@Twisted, it's going to depend on a variety of factors. @kenny thomas tests/monitors on a very regular basis, both his hay and his pasture. Where he is located, it is probably always good enough. If you are up where @Jeanne - Simme Valley is, you don't need to test there either, although her pasture is typically buried in snow for 6 months out of the year. She doesn't ever need protein tubs. If you are down where @Warren Allison and @Ebenezer are, your pastures are always accessible although your protein levels in you pastures drop too low. Your hay needs tested to check your protein levels unless you have some of @Warren Allison's ultra-fertilized Bermuda, and kudzu . Out west where @Dave is, it's seasonal and he probably always feeds supplement/protein tubs, at least on a seasonal basis.

Depending on where you are, if your pastures and hay are variable, you need to adjust what you are feeding to each class of animal depending on its growth/development/gestational stage it is in and what your operation consists of. Cow/calf, stockers, commercial, show, breed stock, etc. I'm quoting Jim Garish again: "It depends"

I missed the South-West. Who is there?

I get that every one needs to or probably should test for and balance the nutritional value of their feed stuffs including, the green grass. If your intentions are to REPETEDLY get the most you can for your efforts a calculator should be involved. Experimental results by "let's feed them this and see what happens" are very hard to balance and get accurate results because some of what your spending for that is going in the front end may very well be going out the back end. The goal is to get it to stick around long enough to to make a profit off of it.

 

[bird dog]

@bird dog, from what you are saying, I'm guessing your organic matter is quite low. Are you interseeding with annuals or cover crops?

Organic levels are not bad its just the soil is depleted on nitrogen and phosphorus. Anything that is flat is the same in this blackland area from the years of cotton farming. You can add fertilizer but it does very little when you soil test it again a year later. Sure it can be fixed if money is no object. I can make pretty good volumes of hay on most years, it just doesn't test well.

There are native cool season grasses that do very well some years. I plant oats in some places. The place(s) will never be much better than they are due to limits of time and money. I have lots of invasive grasses that make everything much more difficult. Until you deal with KR Bluestem, Mexican Feathergrass (needlegrass), witch grass, and spots of cheat grass, its hard to imagine how difficult it is to have nice pretty bermuda fields in this area.

 

[chevytaHOE5674]

Our nearest "feed supplier" is hundreds of miles away and any quantity of supplemental feed would also come from hundreds of miles away. Trucking gets cost prohibitive.

Much cheaper for me to select and retain animals that thrive on our local hay.

If they can't hold condition? Ship
Don't calve in the window? Ship
Calve late in the window? Don't retain replacements from her.

Be religious with your selection and culling and it's possible to have good breed back numbers, short calving season, fat cattle, and no supplemental feed.

 

[Silver]

I test hay sometimes. One thing I've learned about hay is that if it looks like crap it is. and if it's put up in a youthful state and looks good it will be just fine for wintering a pregnant beef cow.

 

[Dsth]

I got in the habit of making good quality alfalfa hay for my dairy herd years ago. I still make the best hay I can for my beef cows now. If they can't maintain good body condition and raise a good healthy calf on 20 - 25% protein hay during the winter they just go down the road. Cows and calves head out to the pastures when spring grass is off to a good start (usually late April early May.) Cows also get about 2 lbs. of cracked corn per day just so they come up from the pasture to keep an eye out for any health problems. cows and calves are use to being around people so breeding, vaccinating, and other chute jobs seem to be much easier.

 

[Silver]

I got in the habit of making good quality alfalfa hay for my dairy herd years ago. I still make the best hay I can for my beef cows now. If they can't maintain good body condition and raise a good healthy calf on 20 - 25% protein hay during the winter they just go down the road. Cows and calves head out to the pastures when spring grass is off to a good start (usually late April early May.) Cows also get about 2 lbs. of cracked corn per day just so they come up from the pasture to keep an eye out for any health problems. cows and calves are use to being around people so breeding, vaccinating, and other chute jobs seem to be much easier.

My cows would founder on 20-25% protein hay. I consider 10% to be okay and anything over 12% to be top shelf for third trimester.

 

[Dsth]

My cows would founder on 20-25% protein hay. I consider 10% to be okay and anything over 12% to be top shelf for third trimester.

I start my calving season in November so they start on hay shortly before they start calving. most of the time they are cleaning up corn fields before calving so the extra protein gives them a nice boost.

 

[TCRanch]

We test hay sometimes. But like @Silver said, if it looks bad, it is. And the pastures aren't in the best shape, especially after another epic drought, so I supplement with 20% cubes but only a little and every other day in the summer. And cubes in the summer are primarily for the calves, to get them used to them and an easier transition at weaning. Fields are tested every year and fertilized accordingly.

Years ago, the alfalfa was put up when it was still too wet and it essentially caramelized. And yet the cows freakin' loved it!!

 

[Brute 23]

I get that every one needs to or probably should test for and balance the nutritional value of their feed stuffs including, the green grass. If your intentions are to REPETEDLY get the most you can for your efforts a calculator should be involved. Experimental results by "let's feed them this and see what happens" are very hard to balance and get accurate results because some of what your spending for that is going in the front end may very well be going out the back end. The goal is to get it to stick around long enough to to make a profit off of it.

I need to do better at it for this reason. I'm all about efficiency and I know this is a weak spot for me. I have started getting a better (slightly) handle, on feeds, but still don't understand how to convert that over to what the different animals need.

 

[Twisted]

I need to do better at it for this reason. I'm all about efficiency and I know this is a weak spot for me. I have started getting a better (slightly) handle, on feeds, but still don't understand how to convert that over to what the different animals need.

This link has a very understandable table at the bottom:

Basic nutrient requirements of beef cattle

Cattle require certain nutrients in specific amounts in order to grow, thrive and reproduce. Learn about the nutrients, the terms used in feeding, and the nutrient requirements by animal type and productivity level.

extension.oregonstate.edu