Calcrate Bander users?

[mncowboy]

How many of you use the Calcrate Bander and do you vaccinate them for tetnus ahead of banding or can a guy get away with just giving them a heavy does of PEN 48 or something? Calves are around 450#-550#'s or so.

 

[cross_7]

I wouldnt gamble on it
I hit them covexin 8 then wait 2 weeks and give a booster then band

 

[Bigfoot]

To big of a risk, for as cheap as the vaccine is.

 

[Isomade]

I have banded hundreds of em over the last few years with only tetanus at banding. Never had a single problem.

 

[thommoos]

I hand banded them with no problem, I have always done when working them, I would just give a shot of combo pen thats all.

 

[ALACOWMAN]

I hand banded them with no problem, I have always done when working them, I would just give a shot of combo pen thats all.

at what age are you talking?

 

[cross_7]

I hand banded them with no problem, I have always done when working them, I would just give a shot of combo pen thats all.

How long does the combi-pen last, 48 hrs ?
How long after banding can tetnus develop ?
I'd say you have been lucky

 

[Lucky_P]

I'm sure there are thousands, maybe millions of bulls that have been banded with Callicrate & others, with no tetanus prophylaxis, that did just fine - but I've seen some real trainwrecks, when they got a tetanus toxoid at the time of band application. By doing so, you're rolling the dice that the animal will have time to respond to the toxoid and make antibodies (takes 10-14 days, minimum) before C.tetani spores germinate, start growing and producing the tetanus toxin.
My preference: Vaccinate with a product containing TT two weeks prior to banding; booster at time of band application.

Combi-Pen is a joke. The procaine penicillin G fraction is essentially gone in 12 hours. Yes, the benzathine pen G fraction hangs around for 48 hours, but it cannot ever reach a blood concentration high enough to actually kill anything.
If it came up for FDA approval today, it would never get approved for use as it currently is.

 

[ousoonerfan22]

My uncle is wanting to band some 4-5 wt calves and he hasn't had the time to work his cattle this year, I wish he would let me do it but he doesn't hardly ever let anyone help him. So if the calves are less than a year old and they should be.... then we band them and give a blackleg/tetanus shot then they should be alright?

 

[Texas PaPaw]

I have banded hundreds of em over the last few years with only tetanus at banding. Never had a single problem.

Same experience here. Have banded from babies to 900# cutting bulls giving TT only at banding with no problems.

 

[machslammer]

My dad bands most of his at birth and never given a shot nor had any problems...
If they are bigger and we have them in the chute we give them a shot of triangle 5 or 10 way and blackleg at time of banding and let em out.

I cut mine while in the chute and spray with blue lotion, fly spray, and give them blackleg, LA 200, and triangle 10 and let em out. Growing like weeds as we speak.

 

[cross_7]

We are all in the same book but on a different page
Some are talking cutting and some are talking banding, we also have talk of tetanus antitoxin and some talking tetanus toxoid, both being referred to as "tetanus shot"
Then we have some giving oxytetracycline and some giving penicillin
Some giving 10 way plus blackleg ?

 

[cross_7]

My uncle is wanting to band some 4-5 wt calves and he hasn't had the time to work his cattle this year, I wish he would let me do it but he doesn't hardly ever let anyone help him. So if the calves are less than a year old and they should be.... then we band them and give a blackleg/tetanus shot then they should be alright?

I was going to try and sort it out but ...
Maybe lucky p wants to

The protocol I use right or wrong ?
Vaccinate with 8-way with tetanus antitoxin EDIT TOXOID and 4 or 5 way (bvd, brsv, ibr etc), 2 weeks later booster with the same and band.
Oxytetracycline and penicillin does not stay in the system for any real benefit other than the immediate infection.
Tetanus toxoid edit antitoxin only last about 7 days so if tetanus develops after that you are without protection.
edit
I use a killed 5 way vaccine


edit
I got it bassakwards

 

[Lucky_P]

cross7's pretty close on

Truthfully, I don't know how long tetanus antitoxin (TAT) lasts - but probably more than 7 days.. but, at least, it does provide almost immediate protection
Tetanus toxoid (TT) takes at least 10-14 days before the animal is producing effective levels of antibodies.

Again, plenty of bulls - babies or big boys - have been banded without any TAT or TT and survived - but I've seen tetanus in banded baby calves - and more than once in multiple animals in a group of larger bulls that were banded and received a dose of a clostridial containing TT at the time of band application; about 10 days to 2 weeks out they started 'sawhorsing' on 'em.
Only case of tetanus I ever had in my own herd was in a 400-lb bull that I knife-cut, so banding doesn't have the market cornered.
I clamp all my bulls with the Burdizzo emasculatome. No bleeding, no tetanus.

Just too much $$$ at stake to risk not vaccinating beforehand, if you're going to band bigger bulls, IMO

Hybrid approach - you can give TAT and TT at the same time - gives immediate protection, followed by the animal making its own antibodies against any new tetanus toxin production that might occur.

 

[cross_7]

cross7's pretty close on

Truthfully, I don't know how long tetanus antitoxin (TAT) lasts - but probably more than 7 days.. but, at least, it does provide almost immediate protection
Tetanus toxoid (TT) takes at least 10-14 days before the animal is producing effective levels of antibodies.

Again, plenty of bulls - babies or big boys - have been banded without any TAT or TT and survived - but I've seen tetanus in banded baby calves - and more than once in multiple animals in a group of larger bulls that were banded and received a dose of a clostridial containing TT at the time of band application; about 10 days to 2 weeks out they started 'sawhorsing' on 'em.
Only case of tetanus I ever had in my own herd was in a 400-lb bull that I knife-cut, so banding doesn't have the market cornered.
I clamp all my bulls with the Burdizzo emasculatome. No bleeding, no tetanus.

Just too much $$$ at stake to risk not vaccinating beforehand, if you're going to band bigger bulls, IMO

Hybrid approach - you can give TAT and TT at the same time - gives immediate protection, followed by the animal making its own antibodies against any new tetanus toxin production that might occur.

Not that it matters but I was curious

Tetanus Antitoxin
Colorado Serum) For prevention and treatment of tetanus in all domestic animals. Confers immediate passive immunity that lasts about 7-14 days.

Sorry I at times become anally retentive
The term anal retentive (also anally retentive), commonly abbreviated to anal,[1] is used to describe a person who pays such attention to detail that the obsession becomes an annoyance to others,

 

[Deepsouth]

cross7's pretty close on

Truthfully, I don't know how long tetanus antitoxin (TAT) lasts - but probably more than 7 days.. but, at least, it does provide almost immediate protection
Tetanus toxoid (TT) takes at least 10-14 days before the animal is producing effective levels of antibodies.

Again, plenty of bulls - babies or big boys - have been banded without any TAT or TT and survived - but I've seen tetanus in banded baby calves - and more than once in multiple animals in a group of larger bulls that were banded and received a dose of a clostridial containing TT at the time of band application; about 10 days to 2 weeks out they started 'sawhorsing' on 'em.
Only case of tetanus I ever had in my own herd was in a 400-lb bull that I knife-cut, so banding doesn't have the market cornered.
I clamp all my bulls with the Burdizzo emasculatome. No bleeding, no tetanus.

Just too much $$$ at stake to risk not vaccinating beforehand, if you're going to band bigger bulls, IMO

Hybrid approach - you can give TAT and TT at the same time - gives immediate protection, followed by the animal making its own antibodies against any new tetanus toxin production that might occur.

Lucky_P are you saying give the babies a shot and wait 2 weeks also or are you saying don't band the little ones at all?

 

[Lucky_P]

Never banded baby calves, and not many of my clients did, either. Next door neighbors band at birth and give TAT - have never lost one to tetanus.
When I see tetanus in babies, it's just sporadic, one calf here and there - but when I see it in the big boys, it's not been unusual for a guy to have lost 10-15 head before they bring one in for diagnostic workup. In most cases, they've either: not vaccinated at all, or gave TT at the time of band application only.

Guess if I were going to band babies, I'd incorporate TT into my pre-calving vaccination program for the cowherd so that the calves would theoretically get some anti-tetanus antibodies in the colostrum - and would give TT to the calf when I banded it.
Keep in mind that maximum colostral antibody levels are pretty well set at 5 weeks pre-calving, so anything you're giving to the cows, with the intention of passing immunity on to the calf must be given well before that 5-week cutoff, so that the cow can respond appropriately.
Recent research indicates that colostral antibodies don't seem to interfere with young animals' ability to respond to most of the vaccines that we use in cattle. But a newborn calf's immune system really 'tanks' between days 3 and 7 - so if you're going to vaccinate or do anything stressful to a baby calf, it's best to do it on Day 1 or wait 'til they're 10 days or so of age.

 

[mncowboy]

Thanks for the replys, like someone had stated it wouldnt be worth the risk so I gave them the first round when they came home and waited 14 days before giving a booster and banding. They're maybe around 550 lbs or so, they showed alittle discomfort the first 24 hours or so but have since bounced back and seem to be unaffected by the band.