Cab & Chassis detuning

[DCB4]

I know that cab and chassis trucks have lower hp & torque ratings in order to meet epa standards and all that good jazz. Im wondering how complicated a process it would be to recover that lost power. I would think they are just tuned down through the computer right? Would a dealership be able to change the programming without voiding the warranty? I also heard the other day that the ram c&c has a different transmission than a regular pickup. Both are 6 speeds made by aisin but was told the c&c chasis was not meant for the 1000 ft of torque the regular pickup truck had. was curious if anyone had any knowledge or experience on this. Really been wanting to buy a new powerstroke but its starting to look like a tradesman witha cummins will be hard to pass up with the prices local dealerships have. new leftover 2019 stock around me is going dirt cheap and theyre offering 0% for 84 months. i could afford to buy a new crew cab tradesman and a new flatdeck gooseneck for the same price id pay for a new ford.

 

[chevytaHOE5674]

I highly doubt any dealership would tune the computer for you. That's sounds like a can of worms/lawsuit waiting to happen.

Thru the aftermarket it shouldn't be much a problem. You can most likely kiss any sort of powertrain warranty goodbye though.

 

[jltrent]

If it was me I would get the new 2020 steel piston diesel truck. As far as power potential and longevity they pass any diesel pickup truck made. They will be like driving a semi power and torque wise.

The available 6.7L Power Stroke® V8 Turbo Diesel has been upgraded for the 2020 Ford F-250. With a 36,000 psi fuel-injection system, stronger block, cylinder heads, connector rods, bearings and forged-steel pistons, this powerplant cranks out a whopping 475 horsepower and an astounding 1,050 lb-ft of torque.

If you prefer a Chrysler product I am sure Cummins will have a steel piston competitor shortly to drop in that chassis.

Just my 2 cents and leave it stock until the warranty is up as stated above. You probably want need anymore power. I have a family member who works at a Mahle plant in quality assurance and he said these steel pistons will last.
https://www.truckinginfo.com/348804/ford-takes-wraps-off-2020-super-duty

 

[cfpinz]

I went thru the same thought process in 2019, even had it narrowed down to the same 2 brands. At the time, the Ford used a different turbo on the c/c models, and possibly a different intake setup - though I'm not 100% sure of the latter.

FWIW - I wound up buying the Ford with a pickup bed instead of a c/c truck. The sole reason being is that a Hydrabed 3250 cannot be fitted to the newer c/c trucks like it used to be, and I didn't want the extra length of the 3350. I'm pleased with it so far, other than the fuel mileage - 13.1 is the best I've got empty and it averages 9 or so with a trailer.

 

[hillbilly beef man]

Your best bet would to buy you a full power pickup version and pull the bed and put it up in a barn somewhere. Then when you ever sell the truck you will have a brand new looking bed to put back on it.

 

[Chevy]

Never really seen the pistons be a weak spot on any of the top three diesels. The old cp4 injection pumps that all three had were junk. The chevy and the Ford now both have new injection systems not sure about the dodge.
Kory Willis at ppei tunes all of our trucks and the power and fuel mileage gains are great. Doubt you would notice a difference in cab chassis power because these trucks have more than you need already.

 

[jltrent]

Steel pistons in the 2020 6.7 PSD can handle way more heat and pressure than an aluminum piston. The melting point of aluminum is 1200 degrees the melting point of steel is 2600 degrees. I would give them at least a year of consumer testing before I bought though.

Beefed up connecting rods.........

 

[cfpinz]

Steel pistons in the 2020 6.7 PSD can handle way more heat and pressure than an aluminum piston. The melting point of aluminum is 1200 degrees the melting point of steel is 2600 degrees. I would give them at least a year of consumer testing before I bought though.

The design of that piston really catches my eye, it's just so different than anything I'm accustomed to. I'd love to know the reasoning behind the different design features.

 

[jltrent]

The new forged steel piston is stronger than aluminum they can move the wrist pin closer to the top of the piston which reduces piston side loading. In addition since a steel pistons thermal expansion is similar to the engine block the piston to block clearance will be much tighter than aluminum which again reduces the need for additional piston wall.. Also the steel pistons can handle more fuel timing and heat since these attributes can crack aluminum pistons. OTR trucks use steel pistons.

 

[Lucky]

My last truck was a Dodge CC. I’d say it was the toughest truck I ever owned. The frames and drive line parts are built much heavier than the standard trucks. I had it about 12 years with very few problems. I needed a bale bed this time so went with the box take off on new rig. One of the power tuner places made a box to get the CC power level up but I never felt I needed the extra power.

I’m sure the steel pistons on the new powerstrokes are an improvement but don’t think it would be a mind changer for me. I’ve got a 2018 F350 dually and while it’s a super nice truck I seriously doubt the truck itself will outlast the pistons. When I look under the hood of that thing all I see is a ton of parts waiting to fail. I’d say 200,000 miles and it’ll be ready to nickel and dime you to death. I’ve also got a 2019 F350 gas rig that I think will last forever, not much going on under the hood. Time will tell though....

 

[chevytaHOE5674]

I've been around a lot of diesel trucks and I can't remember ever hearing about a piston failure in stock or "near stock" power levels. Aluminum pistons don't scare me none.

 

[Lucky]

I think some of the steel piston stuff is because they keep pushing the engines so hard to have more horsepower. I’m gonna say if 1/2 the people that owned diesel pickups actually used them to pull heavy with you’d see them on the side off the road pretty often. I’m included in that bunch. I pull really heavy maybe a dozen times a year, the rest is light loads or cruising. They sure will get up go though

Edit: I’d say a heavy load is anything in the 15-20k range. That’s trailer and whatever is on the trailer. Probably about to start a war there but oh well.

 

[jltrent]

The current aluminum pistons are great, but they are about maxed what power you can get and be reliable. The steel pistons take it to another level if power is what you want with longevity. With everything beefed up around the piston, fuel pressure goes from 26000 to 36000 pounds. Imagine what that will do for power. They probably can eventually double the power and still be reliable and last.

 

[Lucky]

I wonder how long the fuel system will last at those pressures. Last I checked it was around $15,000 to replace the fuel system on a POwer Stroke.

 

[chevytaHOE5674]

Does a guy really need "double the power" other than to brag to his buddy? Double sound good until you have to build a transmission, driveshaft, axle, etc to also last.

 

[jltrent]

I have no desire to own one, although I could see a heck of a tow truck in a beefed up F550. You all make some good points and it will be interesting to see in the next couple of years how these engines/chassis work out. This is not new technology, but in a smaller truck it is. Competitor,s if not already, will have one shortly too.

 

[10-e-c-dirtfarmer]

The new 2020 Ford 7.3 gas specs for pickup are:
HP 430 @ 5500 rpm
TQ 475 @ 4000 rpm
But in Cab/Chassis specs are:
HP 350 @ 3900 rpm
TQ 468 @ 3900 rpm

So my question is, Is it Detuned by the computer, or by cam, compression ratio, or other internal mods,
OR is it just rated @ a lower RPM???
My $'s says it the same engine just rated at a lower RPM...

 

[BigBear56]

Full disclosure I’m a Ford man. I’ve worked in the truck equipment business building class 5-8 trucks for several years and work closely with and have many friends at truck dealerships. There is NO way a dealership will modify stock motors for performance gains period. Even if it’s out of warranty. You will need an independent diesel shop for that. I agree 100% on steel vs aluminum pistons but only when you’re reaching high levels of power (over 400HP). I think in a class 5 truck (F550 or 5500 Dodge) it’s not really going to matter unless you want to really lay the air and fuel to it. That would definitely cause piston damage if you go too far with it.

As far as the chassis goes, the 5500 Ram is hands down more stout than the F550 in terms of frame strength, axle rating and braking capacity. My customers have been happy with both models tho. So it really comes down to what you intend to use the truck for. They all have weak spots and differences.

 

[hillbilly beef man]

The new 2020 Ford 7.3 gas specs for pickup are:
HP 430 @ 5500 rpm
TQ 475 @ 4000 rpm
But in Cab/Chassis specs are:
HP 350 @ 3900 rpm
TQ 468 @ 3900 rpm

So my question is, Is it Detuned by the computer, or by cam, compression ratio, or other internal mods,
OR is it just rated @ a lower RPM???
My $'s says it the same engine just rated at a lower RPM...

Gas engines are rated at a lower rpm in C&C models, so yes the engines are the same in pickup and C&C in gas versions. In diesel the engines are actually different hp.

 

[cfpinz]

As far as the chassis goes, the 5500 Ram is hands down more stout than the F550 in terms of frame strength, axle rating and braking capacity. My customers have been happy with both models tho. So it really comes down to what you intend to use the truck for. They all have weak spots and differences.

That's interesting to hear you say that. A good friend of mine works for the local electric co-op and they just got him a new Dodge 5500 bucket truck to replace his 2012 model, same truck. Every time I bring up his new truck he says the same thing - "Be glad you bought a Ford!"