Bulls not eating

[oakcreekfarms]

I do have alot to learn, which is why I asked the question. And no I am not saying that no one will buy them. But everyone else feeds that much, so if I didn't they would look like a lesser bull. That's pretty much common sense. What kind of cattle do you raise? How much do you think that performance tests feed their bulls. And I know that a lot of people selling yearlings ready for breeding feed out their calves. Why wouldn't you, are any of you in the registered business. Possibly you should call some of the producers that you know who sell in production sells and ask how they feed them. I think you guys are wrong, but I am willing to listen to why you think that I am wrong. My calves that haven't been fed are usually at about 1100lbs or around there at weaning. I just decided to push them a little. Once again, why not try to see what they are capable of. By the way neither of the bulls is fat, they look just right.

Give me some information, instead of just telling me that I am wrong. I will listen, I might disagree, but will listen. By the way LAangus I would assume that they bull you said you liked on the other post was fed basically the same as mine. Maybe call deshazer and see how they feed their yearling bulls for production sales.

 

[la4angus]

By the way LAangus I would assume that they bull you said you liked on the other post was fed basically the same as mine.

I don't know which bull you are saying that I liked was fed exactly the same as yours

Maybe call deshazer and see how they feed their yearling bulls for production sales.

.I am not trying to copy DeShazer's and it makes no difference to me how they feed their bulls.

 

[oakcreekfarms]

You said that I was doing things wrong. I was pointing out that some of the biggest breeders in any breed feed out their bulls the way that I am attempting to do.

Would you tell me why you think I have a lot to learn. I do, but was wondering what you felt you could help me with.

 

[ollie']

If their manure is loose , it's too much feed either in the form of wheat pasture or grain. If their manuer is tight, they don't like the feed or the way you are feeding them.

 

[oakcreekfarms]

their manure isn't loose at all, we are in the process of switching feeds now. Hopefully that will work

 

[la4angus]

You said that I was doing things wrong. I was pointing out that some of the biggest breeders in any breed feed out their bulls the way that I am attempting to do.

Would you tell me why you think I have a lot to learn. I do, but was wondering what you felt you could help me with.

For one thing, the breeders in any breed that are feeding their bulls to see how fast they can gain and get them butterball fat normally have more money than sense. Many have show places and want their cattle to be in top over fat condition when their Big Money Sale Circuit Party buddys come out for their yearly sale. Is this the crowd that you are wanting to get with or is it the commercial producer that needs a bull to breed his cows without falling apart as soon as he is turned out with and chasing the cows. If you want to sell bulls to the commercial breeder and have these producers as your customer base, you won't do it by having a bunch of over fat bulls that have no muscle. We have already talked about the cattle, that after the sale is over are still on the selling farm and ownership has not yet been transferred. Believe me there are many large breeders that feed their bulls to have them in thrifty conditition, and not over fat so that their buyers will come back next time they need a bull instead of telling their friends how your bulls fall apart when they are turned out with the cows.

 

[MikeC]

All cattle should be fed (whether it be grain or forage) to be able to express their genetic potential.

There are rations formulated for "growing" and there are rations formulated for "proper development".

Choose the one that fits your situation.

 

[oakcreekfarms]

I might have to post a pic to show you that they aren't fat at all, which is why I wasn't understanding what anyone was saying. They are gaining weight, thus far it has been all muscle, and they are getting extra capacity and depth. I guess if they started getting really a little heavy I would cut their feed. I am not into shows, so the commercial man is my first priority. THanks for the comments

 

[Herefords.US]

I don't mean to hijack your thread, oakcreekfarms, but I guess the answer that I'm looking for is a bit more specific.

So, I'll try a different approach:


Bull #1

Bull #1 (View 2)

Bull #2

Bull #1 is 19 months old in the pictures. Bulll #2 is 16 months old and had been out with cows for 2 weeks at time of picture.

Opinions Wanted! Overconditioned? Underconditioned? About Right?

Thanks!

George

 

[dun]

Once again I'll serve as a lousy example. When we went bull shopping for the first time, I saw a lot of really nice bulls but they were all being grained while out on decent pasture. The bull I ended up buying was one that had been on a 45 day weaning ration then turned out on a fescue pasture/hayfield since that time with no grain. He's not a flashy bull, but he didn;t loose any condition and has continued to grow on strictly pasture.
Those are the kinds of bulls I wish I could find more of in the semen market and why I'm generally not in favor of using show bulls.

dun

 

[SEC]

How they can and should be fed will always be a life long debate. I doubt many would dispute a TMR ratio, the amount of grain and the ratio of grain/silage/hay in their ration sure will vary.

Maybe the Oak Creek bulls will be just fine, despite scaring myself.

We are happy with our ration even though it's no where near that. I guess how many people come back with broke down bulls would tell the tale as well.

 

[la4angus]

I don't mean to hijack your thread, oakcreekfarms, but I guess the answer that I'm looking for is a bit more specific.

So, I'll try a different approach:



Bull #1 is 19 months old in the pictures. Bulll #2 is 16 months old and had been out with cows for 2 weeks at time of picture.

Opinions Wanted! Overconditioned? Underconditioned? About Right?

Thanks!

George

He is about right, but will gain muscle and harden up as he is out running with the cows for a longer period of time.

 

[turning grass into beef]

A good rule of thumb is that a 900 lb animal will eat about 2.5% of it's body weght on a dry matter basis (this will change slightly on high grain diets versus high roughage diets). 900 x .025 = 22.5 lbs of total feed (dry matter basis). If you say you are trying to get them to eat 20 lbs I assume this is on an as fed basis. If the grain is 88% dry matter then 20lbs as fed is actually 17.6 lbs dry matter. 17.6/22.5=78%. If my calculations are correct you are trying to get your calves to eat 78% of their total daily consumption as grain. Most feedlots (at least in this country) have their final finishing rations at set somwhere between 80% and 90% grain.
Is it really worth it to feed a feedlot finishing diet to a breeding animal and risk the problems associated with it, i.e. liver abscesses, sore feet, etc?

One more thought to ponder. If an animal is not able to get in good enough shape to sell on a ration of 50% grain (just an example) is it the type of animal that should be sold or should it be culled?

 

[SEC]

Even 50/50 for a ration I don't think is good enough.

12 lbs of grain and 12 lbs of hay?

My heifer calves right now will eat 20 lbs of hay a day alone.
A bull would eat more hay than that!

 

[Schnurrbart]

The problem is they were doing the same thing when in a corral. It's not the wheat, or at least it wasn't

If they weigh 850 lbs, they should be worked up to about 12-13# per day or about 1.5% of their body weight. I wouldn't ever go over that % for a working bull. If you were fattening up a steer, you could push him but if I wanted my bull to be able to work again next spring, I sure wouldn't be feeding him almost 2.5% of his weight right now.

 

[oakcreekfarms]

Know that the bulls are eating something other then grain we have switched them to 8lbs a day. Before they were eating grain and not eating a lot of hay. I will slow down the feeding a little

 

[edde_1]

I feed my bulls free choice of both hay and a grain mix of 50% oat and 50% barley. The secret to get them to eat is to get them to drink alot, and to get them to drink alot you got to give them salt. Here i sweden we got so called saltstones that the cattle can lick on.
My bulls are for slaughter and weight about 1300 lbs when they are one years old. But i wouldn´t feed my breeding bulls this way, they should grow enough on a good haysilage.

 

[S.R.R.]

I feed my bulls free choice of both hay and a grain mix of 50% oat and 50% barley. The secret to get them to eat is to get them to drink alot, and to get them to drink alot you got to give them salt. Here i sweden we got so called saltstones that the cattle can lick on.
My bulls are for slaughter and weight about 1300 lbs when they are one years old. But i wouldn´t feed my breeding bulls this way, they should grow enough on a good haysilage.

Sounds like you have some good sense.

 

[auctionboy]

If the overly fat bulls are what people are bidding on at the sale then I don't see how you can criticize this guy. 20lbs is probably pushing a little to hard, that's why they went of feed. Read up on the rumen, that goes for all of you.

 

[la4angus]

I feed my bulls free choice of both hay and a grain mix of 50% oat and 50% barley. The secret to get them to eat is to get them to drink alot, and to get them to drink alot you got to give them salt. Here i sweden we got so called saltstones that the cattle can lick on.
My bulls are for slaughter and weight about 1300 lbs when they are one years old. But i wouldn´t feed my breeding bulls this way, they should grow enough on a good haysilage.

Yeah, it sure does sound he has good sense. And plenty of it too. There is a few people on this board that could take some lessons from him. edde_1 you are a credit to the Cattle Today board and to the cattle producers in Sweden.