Bull Question

[dalehollowsantagert]

At the end of August I purchased a Reg. Santa Gertrudis bull. He was about 18 months old when I purchased him. In very nice condition. Anyway, brought him home and the man I purchased him from told me to feed him and have his hooves trimmed before I bred him to cows. I told him I would have him trimmed when I had a BSE done on him, as he said he would guarantee him if I had a BSE done. So last week I go and have the bull checked. He came back with all dead sperm. The vet thought it probably was the heat. The bull was 19 months old when I had the BSE did. The vet as well as other breeders I have talked to, suggested that I take him back in 45 day (first week in Nov.) and give him no cotton seed hulls, and put an open cow in with him so he could "flush his dead stuff" out as one breeder said. I contacted the breeder and told him the situation, he said he would do whatever made me happy (trade bulls, give my money back) or I could keep the bull and try it again in 45 days or so and if he still wasn't good, he would still make me happy. The bull is of a very good pedigree. So I don't want to really give up on him. But what do you all think of what I have heard from the vet and other breeders? I have always had cows, but this is my first experience with virgin bulls. So any advice you can give with be appreciated.

 

[dun]

Unless the waiting would screw up your breeding season I would do as the vet advised.

 

[Caustic Burno]

Gert's are late to mature anyway, but he should be hot at 18 month's. I ain't buying heat on a Gert bull there should be some swimmer's. I would have him retested a couple of times over the next couple of weeks if he is still shootin blanks you have hamburger IMO. I messed with a lot of Gert's in my youth and the only heat I ever seen bother a Gert was when they blowing their nose in my back pocket.

 

[Brute 23]

I would tell the man to come get his bull back. Especially if its because of heat.

When ever I have bought bulls the seller always tests the bulls between me picking them out and me picking them up. Saves all this headache and its at the sellers expense. They actually ask to choose back ups in case they test bad.

 

[dalehollowsantagert]

This man is a very nice man. He offered for me to come look at the bull before I bought it and then he would have a BSE done and I could come back and get him if everything was ok. Which I would have done, but he lives a little over 5 hours away from me. I guess lesson learned on my part there. Luckily I have a sale that where he is from that we will both be at this weekend. Which is why I was posing the question before then. Cause since I am going down there anyway I could just return it to him. A guy in Missouri who knows Gerts told me he thought I'd be surprised by the results in 45 days on this bull. I just wanted some other opinions. But their is a bull at this sale this weekend so I might want to take him back if their is a little chance that he will be good in 45 days. I was planning on starting breeding season about Dec. 15th.

 

[bigbull338]

you prolly got a bad bull.id take him back an get another bull.

 

[TennesseeTuxedo]

Okay experts. What is the proven scientific percentage of sterile bulls?

 

[dalehollowsantagert]

I'm just curious if anyone has had success with a bull having a negative test, then taking him back 30, 45, 60 days later and had a positive test? I don't need a "proven scientific percentage" as you so smartly said. I am just curious of others experiences with this kinda situations. Thanks for any help, advice, comments, in advance.

 

[backhoeboogie]

It doesn't matter. Hed tested negative. Something is wrong. Lose that bull. Take him back and get one that's good.

I've only got 50 head left. That's it following the drought culling. Aint no way in hades I would take a chance on having anything less than a good bull. A Gert should be able to withstand heat as well as any other breed. They are designed for my climate which is more extreme than yours. Grandaddy had pastures full of them back in the 60's.

Lose that bull. Forget him. This is business and you need to be a business man. Can you afford losing a calf crop? Why even roll the dice? Bet on a sure thing.

To answer your question, no. If one of mine tested anything less than hot, I'd be done right there.

 

[dun]

Since the OP mentioned the feeding of cottonseed hulls and the bull needed his feet trimmed my thoughts are that it may be a feed related issue more so then the individual. A bull that age that needs it's feed trimmed either has structural problems (genetic?) or was poorly developed nutritionally

 

[ANAZAZI]

Since the OP mentioned the feeding of cottonseed hulls and the bull needed his feet trimmed my thoughts are that it may be a feed related issue more so then the individual. A bull that age that needs it's feed trimmed either has structural problems (genetic?) or was poorly developed nutritionally

Cotton seed is not good for bulls. :2cents:

 

[pdfangus]

feet trimmed on 18 month old bull....

RED FLAG

cottonseed hulls......

ANOTHER RED FLAG

shooting blanks

STTTTTRRRRRIIIIIIKKKKKEEE THREE.....YOU'R OUT.

 

[Brute 23]

It doesn't matter if its feed, heat, what ever else. There are too many good bulls out there that will test good the first time. You want one ready to work... not a fixer upper.

 

[dalehollowsantagert]

Since the OP mentioned the feeding of cottonseed hulls and the bull needed his feet trimmed my thoughts are that it may be a feed related issue more so then the individual. A bull that age that needs it's feed trimmed either has structural problems (genetic?) or was poorly developed nutritionally

I feed 12% Co-op feed. He was on it for about 2 months or so at my place. I have no idea the consistency of his feed at the other breeders place, I assume bull ration. Anyway, the 12% does have some cottonseed in it I'm assuming. No structural issues with his feet, they are fine. The other breeder just suggested that I have them trimmed before I bred him so that he wouldn't have any issues with his feet during breeding season. So I was just taking his advice on that. The guy has raised a couple of national champions so I assumed he knew what he was talking about. The bull was/is in very nice condition.

Sounds like you all believe I have a dud. The thing for me, is I never was questioning whether I should take him back or not. Let me explain my situation, so maybe I'll be more clear in my intent.

I bought the bull Aug 27. He told me he would pay for a BSE if I wanted one done. I told him I did. He suggested the feet trim as I already stated. Fed the bull 12% Co-op feed for 2 months as well as a few other bulls I've been raising. I have a Registered Santa Gertrudis sale Oct. 8th that is close to his place (less than 30 mins), so I figured that I should have a BSE done before then in case of any problems. The vet said he was dead last Wed. but the heat or he might be too young, might be the problem. It had been a very hot summer so I thought maybe he was right. Text the other breeder to tell him the situation. He said he would give me my money back, trade on another bull, give me a sale credit this weekend, whatever made me happy. I told him I would let him know. Talked to a Genetics guy who breeds all sorts of cattle, and he suggested that in 45 days I might be surprised about that bull if I took him back. So that got me thinking. There is an older bull at the sale this weekend, that intrigued me. Then I decided I wasn't that excited about that bull. But I have another Registered sale, Nov. 12th in Georgia a little over the 45 days I would wait to test the bull again. So if he was still bad, I could return him on my way to the sale in Georgia and I would have a chance to buy a bull at that sale. If he comes back "fertile murtile" then sounds like I don't have to worry. So keeping the bull and testing him in 45 days won't knock me out of a chance at other bulls. It also won't hurt my breeding season, because I don't need a bull at the earliest until Dec. 15th. But if you all think the 45 days isn't gonna matter. I will just get it over with now and take him back. Thanks for any comments and thoughts on my situation.

 

[TennesseeTuxedo]

Keep us posted.

Are you located near Dale Hollow or just like the name? Beautiful lake.

 

[dalehollowsantagert]

Keep us posted.

Are you located near Dale Hollow or just like the name? Beautiful lake.

Pickett Co. Both of our farms have views of the lake.

 

[pdfangus]

You asked for opinions....

many responded....

feel free to disregard.....

 

[TexasBred]

Since the OP mentioned the feeding of cottonseed hulls and the bull needed his feet trimmed my thoughts are that it may be a feed related issue more so then the individual. A bull that age that needs it's feed trimmed either has structural problems (genetic?) or was poorly developed nutritionally

CS hulls should be harmless....Vet probably said whole cottonseed but can't imagine why anyone would be feeding whole cottonseed at this time of the year.....but having to trim hooves is usually caused by improper nutrition....trim the things...they'll grow right back. Young man I'd let the man have his bull back, pick another and have him tested before you take delivery.

 

[Cattleman200]

Quote TexasBred Re: Bull Question
by TexasBred » Wed Oct 05, 2011 4:42 pm

dun wrote:
Since the OP mentioned the feeding of cottonseed hulls and the bull needed his feet trimmed my thoughts are that it may be a feed related issue more so then the individual. A bull that age that needs it's feed trimmed either has structural problems (genetic?) or was poorly developed nutritionally
CS hulls should be harmless....Vet probably said whole cottonseed but can't imagine why anyone would be feeding whole cottonseed at this time of the year.....but having to trim hooves is usually caused by improper nutrition....trim the things...they'll grow right back. Young man I'd let the man have his bull back, pick another and have him tested before you take delivery.
I agree 100% with TB`s post. However on a different note some bulls (whether you realize it or not) vary greatly at certain times during a given year. Letting a bull breed a couple of cows and feeding a high powered mineral will improve a bulls sperm count in a big way on a recheck. A friend of mine just recently purchased a 3 yo bull and 3 females from a man I sold them to. One of the females calved to that bull the day he purchaased them. The other two were checked and were both 2-3 months safe to that bull. When he had the bull checked (because he had him sold to someone else already) the vet said he did not see any live sperm. My friend turned him in on some commercial cows and put out some really good mineral and he plans to check him again in a couple of weeks. I am betting it will be a different story on the recheck.

I also had a bull that we were collecting semen on that had the same thing happen. "No good at all" was the report I got on his semen sample. Was advised to do what I described above and a month later the tech told me his semen was as good quality as anything he had collected in the last month. I know for a fact that bulls go in and out on semen quality at given times though the year. I still believe you need to get another bull in this case.


Circle H Ranch

 

[backhoeboogie]

I agree 100% with TB`s post. However on a different note some bulls (whether you realize it or not) vary greatly at certain times during a given year. Letting a bull breed a couple of cows and feeding a high powered mineral will improve a bulls sperm count in a big way on a recheck. A friend of mine just recently purchased a 3 yo bull and 3 females from a man I sold them to. One of the females calved to that bull the day he purchaased them. The other two were checked and were both 2-3 months safe to that bull. When he had the bull checked (because he had him sold to someone else already) the vet said he did not see any live sperm. My friend turned him in on some commercial cows and put out some really good mineral and he plans to check him again in a couple of weeks. I am betting it will be a different story on the recheck.

I also had a bull that we were collecting semen on that had the same thing happen. "No good at all" was the report I got on his semen sample. Was advised to do what I described above and a month later the tech told me his semen was as good quality as anything he had collected in the last month. I know for a fact that bulls go in and out on semen quality at given times though the year. I still believe you need to get another bull in this case.


Circle H Ranch

So your friend is a horse trader? What is his purpose in using a bull that had bad results? Is he going to sell that one that tested bad to someone else and not disclose the test results?

You say "some bulls vary greatly" at different times of the year..... Lets just supposed you are correct. I don't want one of those. Period. Can't afford to take a chance on a bull that might be varying.

There's way too many good bulls out there. A whole lot of good bulls went for hamburger in this drought. Really, really good bulls. A whole lot of folks who were running over 300 head now have about 20 head. They didn't need all those bulls any more.