Bull Question

[Cattleman200]

You say "some bulls vary greatly" at different times of the year..... Lets just supposed you are correct. I don't want one of those. Period. Can't afford to take a chance on a bull that might be varying.

Lets not supposed anything. Its a fact. You may have had a bull like that and not even know it. It only takes one sperm to fertilize an egg. A bull that is 10% good can still settle a cow. This was shared with me by the man that runs a major bull stud. I saw it first hand also and I know it to be true.

My friend is not a horse trader. A 3 y.o. bull with only 3 cows to breed IMO could possibly read like a immature bull when he goes through a hot summer and has not been cleaned out. I see young bulls ejaculate in the pasture a lot at pre breeding age. You typically wont see the older bulls doing that.


Circle H Ranch

 

[Brute 23]

I don't see why I have to put a bull on mineral, trim his feet, adjust his diest, and all kinds of other non-sense for him to test good. Besides the fact I think thats :bs: ..... the breeder should be maintaining those bulls so they are ready to work immediatly. Thats like buying a car and not being able to drive it off the lot because it needs work. Did those bulls say "some assebly required" or what. IF that breeder slacks off in that area they probably slack off in other areas also. No thanks.

 

[TexasBred]

I agree 100% with TB`s post. However on a different note some bulls (whether you realize it or not) vary greatly at certain times during a given year. Letting a bull breed a couple of cows and feeding a high powered mineral will improve a bulls sperm count in a big way on a recheck. A friend of mine just recently purchased a 3 yo bull and 3 females from a man I sold them to. One of the females calved to that bull the day he purchaased them. The other two were checked and were both 2-3 months safe to that bull. When he had the bull checked (because he had him sold to someone else already) the vet said he did not see any live sperm. My friend turned him in on some commercial cows and put out some really good mineral and he plans to check him again in a couple of weeks. I am betting it will be a different story on the recheck.

I also had a bull that we were collecting semen on that had the same thing happen. "No good at all" was the report I got on his semen sample. Was advised to do what I described above and a month later the tech told me his semen was as good quality as anything he had collected in the last month. I know for a fact that bulls go in and out on semen quality at given times though the year. I still believe you need to get another bull in this case.


Circle H Ranch

So your friend is a horse trader? What is his purpose in using a bull that had bad results? Is he going to sell that one that tested bad to someone else and not disclose the test results?

You say "some bulls vary greatly" at different times of the year..... Lets just supposed you are correct. I don't want one of those. Period. Can't afford to take a chance on a bull that might be varying.

There's way too many good bulls out there. A whole lot of good bulls went for hamburger in this drought. Really, really good bulls. A whole lot of folks who were running over 300 head now have about 20 head. They didn't need all those bulls any more.

Bulls your running now will vary during certain times of the year as well. A proven fact. Fertility testing just says "he's good today"....or "he's no good today". Nothing more, nothing less. It does help to keep the pipes flushed regularly.

 

[TennesseeTuxedo]

Bulls your running now will vary during certain times of the year as well. A proven fact. Fertility testing just says "he's good today"....or "he's no good today". Nothing more, nothing less. It does help to keep the pipes flushed regularly.

TexasBred

I'll say a hardy amen to that last statement. :cboy:

 

[thommoos]

Put that bull in the wind ASAP, Look 45 days are not going to make a difference, feet trimmed, he was on free choice feed out of a creeper :shock: Sounds like a common practice for this breeder, why was he not checked by the breeder before selling :?: It does not add up, bad bull, brimmers based animal are not suppose to be affected by the heat

 

[dalehollowsantagert]

Put that bull in the wind ASAP, Look 45 days are not going to make a difference, feet trimmed, he was on free choice feed out of a creeper :shock: Sounds like a common practice for this breeder, why was he not checked by the breeder before selling :?: It does not add up, bad bull, brimmers based animal are not suppose to be affected by the heat

I was told by another breeder that had this same situation happen to him, bull was on the young side of 2, had him checked after a hot summer, then wasn't any good. He let him turn 2, checked him in fall/winter and he came back fine and used the bull so several years. This was a Gert bull. Heat will effect any bull who's balls haven't dropped down far enough to dissipate the heat, Especially during a summer like this one was. The vet said over half the bulls he has checked this summer have checked bad, and he believed it to be due to the Extreme heat we had this summer. That check I had, the bull had been running with no cows of any kind, so the stuff he produced 60 days before the test (end of July) was still in there. Of course it wasn't gonna test good, I should have known that.

I am gonna keep the bull til the 2nd week in Nov. and have him tested again, if he doesn't test, then I will make arrangements with the gentleman I bought him off of to get him back to him and will get my money back. If I'm wrong, that's fine. I'll take him back and purchase one in Nov at a sale in Georgia, a month before I need one for my breeding season. If I'm right and he turns out good, then I will have a genetically awesome herd sire to put on my registered cows.

He hasn't been on cotton seed anything that I am aware of. Since he has been with me, he has gotten 3 coffee cans of 12% Co-op feed a day and been in a pasture with some other bulls eating a good diet of grass. . A breeder told me not to feed him anything with cotton seed anything in it, that' s why I mentioned it in the first place.

AGAIN HIS FEET ARE NOT BAD, NOR DO THEY WORRY ME. THE VET EVEN TOLD ME HE DID NOT THINK THEY NEEDED IT. The gentleman I bought him off of, suggested that I keep his feet trimmed before breeding season every year, and I was/am gonna breed him in Dec, so I was going to have his feet trimmed in preparation of that. And that is something I agree with, cause if they get foot problems, they ain't gonna breed a cow.

I saw this guys operation. He takes very good care of his animals. He won the 2010 National champion bull, so he and his farm manager know what they are doing. I am not knocking the man. He is a good man, who stands by his product. He would reimburse me today if I wanted to take the bull back, or he's wait for me to get another test, and that's what I've told him I will do.

If the bull fails another test, then he will be on the road back to him and I will have no ill-will to the man I bought him from.

And thommoos, the breeder told me I could come pick out a bull and he would take it to have it checked, and I could come back and pick it up. I chose to pick him up the day I picked him up and took him to get tested myself (which the breeder is going to pay for at his expense). That was my mistake, something I will learn from for the future.

All cattle are effected by heat......Santa Gertrudis are just more adapted to heat than other English breeds. They aren't perfect and completely immune to heat. 100 degree temps with heat indexs in the teens, that's going to affect even Gerts to an extent.

:tiphat:

 

[backhoeboogie]

Most of mine are calving on about 11 month intervals. It is hard to believe that has gone on all these years with a bull I can't count on year round.

 

[TennesseeTuxedo]

Do you calve year round or do you employ a controlled breeding/calving season?

 

[backhoeboogie]

Year round. But now that I only have 50, that may change some.

Heifers are usually grouped and held back, then exposed all at the same time. Hence, they start out with a season.

Got a pure brangus that calves at 10 months and 1 week. Had a Char/Brahman F1 that has gone to 10 months 2 weeks. Most are right at or just under 11 month intervals by their 4th year.

 

[TennesseeTuxedo]

Thanks.

 

[Cattleman200]

Just FYI... The bull I talked about above was retested today and tested 93%. It was about a month ago from his first test. The vet also said his concentration was above average. I am not saying by any means that anyone should keep a bull that tests bad but on occasion proper nutrition and/or lack of breeding for awhile can cause a bad test from time to time. The man who is buying this bull is aware of the situatiuon and both test results. He is fine with it and wants the bull.


Circle H Ranch

 

[Commercialfarmer]

I would never want to make an excuse for a truly bad bull.

But fever (of any reason) can also cause them to be sterile briefly. When new sperm is produced after the fever has broke which takes something like 45 days to mature, all will be fine. If a bull was sick or had an abscess or whatever up to a month and a half prior to him being tested, he may test bad. And it may have recovered and you never known a thing was wrong.

And think about the difference there is in fertility from wearing briefs vs boxers in people. Our and their core body temperatures are no where near the ambient temperatures reached this summer in a lot of regions. Now add the ~ 20 degree increase on average for black hides, and I am surprised we have as many bred cattle as we do.

 

[greatgerts]

I hope things turn out with the bull. I actually talked with the manager at that operation the other day. He even brought up the situation, but did not mention names because we were talking about the heat and fertility issues.
If I were you, I would start doing some research, just in case and not just with the sale in Georgia even though it is a great sale and they have excellent cattle there. We are taking some nice females there. Heck, I'd sell you one, but we don't have anything breeding age right now.