Bull calf

[RD-Sam]

What do you think of my two month old bull calf?

 

[hillsdown]

Lots to like. Post pics again in a couple of months.

 

[TexasBred]

Nice calves Sam...Mama is doing a good job. ;-)

 

[KNERSIE]

There is potential, hope he grows more top and less shoulder as he ages.

 

[3waycross]

Nice calf :tiphat:

 

[ALACOWMAN]

who's his sire??

 

[pdfangus]

i CONCUR WITH ALL ABOVE COMMENTS.

 

[Oldtimer]

Looking good Sam..

 

[slick4591]

 

[RD-Sam]

who's his sire??

Thanks for the nice comments everyone, I'll update with new pics in a couple of months.

Sire is GAR Retail Product, dam is my best cow, and this may be the best mating with her so far.

 

[RD-Sam]

There is potential, hope he grows more top and less shoulder as he ages.

Please explain your thoughts on this, are you referring to calving ease?

 

[sizmic]

I really like RP. Almost as much as Grid Topper. I think he got bit on the whole AM NH thing, still a good bull in my opinion.

Nice calf!

Sizmic

 

[RD-Sam]

I really like RP. Almost as much as Grid Topper. I think he got bit on the whole AM NH thing, still a good bull in my opinion.

Nice calf!

Sizmic

Thanks! RP appears to be better than Grid Topper from a maternal perspective(EPD's), but I wouldn't know, this is my first RP and never used Grid Topper. I have seen some pretty nice Retail Product females at other ranches, that is why I used him.

 

[angusdave63]

i really like my retail products cows.

 

[DOC HARRIS]

The questioning of Knersie's comment by referring to 'calving ease' is an egregious over-simplification of what I think Knersie meant by his remark. I am sure that he can go into express detail in clarifying his meaning to you, but I would like to add a modicum of additional essential facts which may help focus the attention on other genetic traits of concomitant importance.

The characteristic of "Calving Ease" involves more consideration of Phenotypic Traits than just '...shoulder' size or shape. To keep these opinions in an understandable form and not allow the post to become too 'weighty', here are a few factors to consider - not necessarily in order of importance: Birth Weight, Pelvic area, Weaning weight, are all Medium Heritability Rankings, therefore not cause for high concern - but certainly critical consideration. There are many factors which may affect calving difficulty, such as birth weight of the calf, pelvic area of the cow, gestation length, sex of the calf, cow's body condition at calving, calf presentation at birth, - these are just a few possible problems - and too much width of the calf's shoulders is among those potential trouble areas.

Concerning the subject of the top line, a wide top line should be equal to the heart girth measurement at 12 months. I concur with Knersie's desire in this regard. A well-developed top line (and width) in a bull is of primary importance for his value as a profitable producer.

Shoulder width is a high indicator of masculinity. His shoulders should be a minimum of two inches wider than his rump length.(THESE ARE ALL MATURE DEVELOPED MEASUREMENTS)) A calf will change and develop disproportionately during his growth and maturing period, therefore what he presents at two months of age is merely an indication of his potential! I certainly see no reason for concern with this young bull at this period of his life. The indicated structural soundness of this bull calf seems to be in adequate order. Correct phenotypic development of this calf should be carefully observed as he matures, but without undue concern over normal, expected 'adolescent' growth spurts and imbalances! When he begins to produce testosterone, which stimulates nitrogen retention and therefore stops the growth of his long bones (canon), and resulting in medium length legs, THEN it will be the time to evaluate his shoulder functional trait and expect them to flow smoothly into his rib structure.

The ability of the individual bull (or heifer) to meet the reqirements of a profitable breeding herd candidate is due to heredity, environment, feed and management. This bull has the heredity. The rest is up to you, and how well you have prepared for his future successes and profitability.

I really didn't anticipate this to result in a textbook tome. I am sure that Knersie can extend his thoughts well past these efforts.

DOC HARRIS

 

[gabbyellepaige]

Great looking calf.

 

[KNERSIE]

There is potential, hope he grows more top and less shoulder as he ages.

Please explain your thoughts on this, are you referring to calving ease?

I wasn't referring to calving ease specifically, but it is applicable.

I was more referring to balance, the bullcalf in question has a very good hip and round, very well defined jump muscle, very good muscling on the fore-arm and early signs of masculinity on the neck and crest. Proportionally to the above the top from the hip forward to the withers isn't nearly as strong and the loin is a bit light at this stage. It almost looks like the middle piece belongs to another calf and was cut and pasted in. This may very well change some with age and maturity, but in my experience one shouldn't expect miracles.

The shoulders is prominent at this stage, again it might just be a growth spurt and the rest may catch up again, but it goes back to balance again and balance in all traits is what we as breeders should aim for at all times if we want to get close to the complete package.

Broad, muscular, masculine, smoothly and correctly laid in shoulders in a mature bull doesn't bother me one bit, as its not only an indication of retail product but its also a secondary sex trait and an indication of endocrine balance and fertility in a bull. It also developes during and after puberty.

Prominent bulging shoulders in a young calf is much more of a concern to me, because he was born with it and it may very well cause dystocia in certain instances.

 

[Jeanne - Simme Valley]

Excellent post Knersie - I agree.
What was the actual BW of this calf?

 

[RD-Sam]

Excellent post Knersie - I agree.
What was the actual BW of this calf?

97 pounds out of an 8 year old cow.

 

[RD-Sam]

There is potential, hope he grows more top and less shoulder as he ages.

Please explain your thoughts on this, are you referring to calving ease?

I wasn't referring to calving ease specifically, but it is applicable.

I was more referring to balance, the bullcalf in question has a very good hip and round, very well defined jump muscle, very good muscling on the fore-arm and early signs of masculinity on the neck and crest. Proportionally to the above the top from the hip forward to the withers isn't nearly as strong and the loin is a bit light at this stage. It almost looks like the middle piece belongs to another calf and was cut and pasted in. This may very well change some with age and maturity, but in my experience one shouldn't expect miracles.

The shoulders is prominent at this stage, again it might just be a growth spurt and the rest may catch up again, but it goes back to balance again and balance in all traits is what we as breeders should aim for at all times if we want to get close to the complete package.

Broad, muscular, masculine, smoothly and correctly laid in shoulders in a mature bull doesn't bother me one bit, as its not only an indication of retail product but its also a secondary sex trait and an indication of endocrine balance and fertility in a bull. It also developes during and after puberty.

Prominent bulging shoulders in a young calf is much more of a concern to me, because he was born with it and it may very well cause dystocia in certain instances.

Looking at his shoulders from the top, the muscles are well defined. The calf looks proportionally correct to me when I look at him, but I am far from an expert. If he stays, he will get used on mature cows first, to see what he produces. Both sire and dam are typically moderate birth weights with good calving ease.