Building the herd up opinions?

[tomnt369]

We have a few head and just bought 11 more pairs. Heifers are 2 years old and calves are 8 weeks. The wife wants to increase the herd some more and thinks retaining the heifer calves is the best way. I say sell all the calves in the fall and buy a few more pairs for a couple of years would be more efficient.

Opinions?? :tiphat:

 

[Rafter S]

There are arguments for you both being right. If you're in a hurry, your method will work better. If you have genetics that you want to perpetuate, keep your heifers. I don't know which is more cost effective. I suspect there are a lot of variables that can change the answer.

I do some of both, though I lean toward keeping and raising my own heifers.

 

[kjonesel]

It all depends on what you are capable of doing. Calving heifers would normally be the least expensive. It is slower and requires a lot more management. If you were able to AI and were experienced in delivering calves and had facilities to house the animals in for observation then that is a viable option. The AI would be to select proven calving ease sires, there are some with extremely low birth weights. With heifers it is not abnormal to assist in calving as you are actually opening the birth canal for the first time and someone to help along with at least a pen comes in handy. Be ready to accept losses. eventually you are going to realize that you have a higher rate of mortality with heifers compared to cows.
Some management tools that have been utilized to improve calving success with heifers is pelvic measurement, heifer nutrition, and of course sire selection. Now the advantages are that if you breed correctly you may have an improved set of genetics with each generation of heifers you raise. Always remember no one normally sells their best cows.

 

[BC]

As my friend Rafter S said it depends on your situation. Since you are a small operation just starting, I would suggest you look at buying your replacements. The reason is you don't have to worry with having a separate group to tend to because the weaned heifers will require a better plane of nutrition from weaning to breeding. You will also have two winter feed bills in them before you get a paycheck from the sale of their first calf.

That being said, the other side of the coin on keeping heifers is you know the genetics behind them. It allows you to keep heifers out of your best cows thus improving your herd.

 

[tomnt369]

Thanks for the opinions. I think I'll do what smart husbands do and compromise :bang: she can keep one or two heifer calves and I will buy a couple of replacements.

This forum has really got a lot of helpful information...glad we found it.

 

[M.Magis]

Someone correct me if I'm wrong, I have been before. To me, retaining heifers become more beneficial down the road, when you have more history with individual animals and their offspring. With animal I've just bought the last couple years, I don't necessarily know if I'm retaining good genetics or bad. So far, I feel I'm better off buying what I feel are quality replacements and put them straight into "production". Part of the issue is I don't have surplus grass or hay. I'd much rather be feeding an animal that will produce a calf next year, vs one that MIGHT produce one in two years. Just my way of doing it, may not be the best way.

 

[Caustic Burno]

We have a few head and just bought 11 more pairs. Heifers are 2 years old and calves are 8 weeks. The wife wants to increase the herd some more and thinks retaining the heifer calves is the best way. I say sell all the calves in the fall and buy a few more pairs for a couple of years would be more efficient.

Opinions?? :tiphat:

Are you a terminal operation?
If so retaining heifers means rotating out the bull sooner.
Secondly you will have 1500 to 1800 in them before you get a calf, if you get one.
All heifers are a crap shoot.

 

[Ebenezer]

If the heifers you plan to keep are the ones that come by the side of the cow in the purchase of pairs then you have no idea of the quality of the heifers to be replacements. Get a decent bull that is the type that you want and keep his heifers and you will have some uniformity to start. Otherwise it will be a crap shoot.

 

[uplandnut]

This is very interesting as I was on this train of thought when I started buying bred cows. I figured I would keep heifers that I had and be increasing my herd as they were out of different blood than my bull. That being said I can totally see the other side of the coin, when you guys refer to the situation as you have.

 

[bigbull338]

i was talking to a friend yesterday.he told me that the bought 36 open replacement heifers weighing 775lb.said he got them for his price.going to turn the bulls in in may wanting them to start calving in feb.told him he was gonna have fun calving them out.but if i was you id sell the heifer calves and buy back pairs.

 

[tomnt369]

I just feel more comfortable buying experienced replacements than putting money and time into raising heifers. Adding in, changing the bull out constantly is also a pain.

Also I usually buy them from a local rancher that we've known for years and have seen his operation and genetics.

 

[Brute 23]

Thanks for the opinions. I think I'll do what smart husbands do and compromise :bang: she can keep one or two heifer calves and I will buy a couple of replacements.

This forum has really got a lot of helpful information...glad we found it.

That is a good idea IMO. For one, happy wife... happy life. Two, it will give you first hand knowledge of the pros and cons of each.

I personally like raising my own heifers for multiple reasons but I am not against buying some if I come across the right deal. I was at a pure blood Angus sale a month or so ago and they sell commercial cattle at the end. I could have bought, I forget the exact head count, 4, 5, 6, Angus X first calf heifers for $1350 with #60 calves at their side. That was a deal I should have jumped on. On the other side open Brangus and Tigerstripe heifers were $1500-1700. I can raise those cheaper, have background on them, and have them tamed down to my liking.

We had a small pasture behind our house when I was growing up that my uncle would put replacement heifers in. He would give me a few bucks to keep and eye on them and feed them a little feed every now and then. I was 10-15years old at the time. He still has quite a few of the cows (now) in production on a family property in Lavaca County. 15 years later they still come running up to meat random in the middle of the pasture like "where's the feed?".

I just put out 20 heifers at the first of the year and I truly enjoy walking through them and knowing we produced them start to finish. I enjoy seeing the quality get better and better over time. I enjoy seeing 3 or 4 generations of momma cows producing side by side.

 

[tdc_cattle]

Heifers are a pain in the ass. If you buy they are usually high, if you retain its 3 years from birth till you get any income. you have to watch them closer for calving issues, never know what kind of a mom they are going to be. then get them to maintain condition and breed back.

Out of curisoity I'd thought about starting a thread asking what % of peoples retained heifers make the cut the next year? How many are culled at 3years, 4,5,6,and so on. If she doesn't make the cut there's a good chance she's worth less at three then she was at nine months.

On the flip side you can spend a fortune and not be happy with them either.

Right now I'm buying pairs and keeping heifers out of my best cows. So far all of my best cows have had heifers this year so who knows I may keep several, but it'll be against my better judgement.

 

[Caustic Burno]

Heifers are a pain in the be nice. If you buy they are usually high, if you retain its 3 years from birth till you get any income. you have to watch them closer for calving issues, never know what kind of a mom they are going to be. then get them to maintain condition and breed back.

Out of curisoity I'd thought about starting a thread asking what % of peoples retained heifers make the cut the next year? How many are culled at 3years, 4,5,6,and so on. If she doesn't make the cut there's a good chance she's worth less at three then she was at nine months.

On the flip side you can spend a fortune and not be happy with them either.

Right now I'm buying pairs and keeping heifers out of my best cows. So far all of my best cows have had heifers this year so who knows I may keep several, but it'll be against my better judgement.

If you take the average of 1.50 a day to maintain a cow it cost you have 180 days till breeding age from weaning another 283 days on a maybe plus two years that the dam returned nothing to the bottom line.
My math comes out to 1700 bucks ball park to retain. It doesn't pencil out in a commercial operation.
Buck fifty is actually on the low side to maintain a cow.
On a top of that there is nothing to write off on the retained heifer if she craps out at calving.
She has no value to the irs as you have written off all her upkeep their is no legal double dipping here.

 

[Brute 23]

I think it's funny in these threads people act like they bat 100% buying momma cows.

Not speaking for every one but if I buy 20 cows vs raise 20 heifers I cull more cows long term than heifers.

 

[talltimber]

x2. I've bought two groups of cows. One from Dad to get started, cows had been culled through over the years. Not much trouble with them. I bought another six from a guy, nice pretty set of cows. Looks like aint but one of them, maybe two gonna stay. Buy six to get one or two doesn't sound like too good of a proposition either.

 

[M-5]

x2. I've bought two groups of cows. One from Dad to get started, cows had been culled through over the years. Not much trouble with them. I bought another six from a guy, nice pretty set of cows. Looks like aint but one of them, maybe two gonna stay. Buy six to get one or two doesn't sound like too good of a proposition either.

Only if you paid 2 much for them. I done that a few times but have been lucky the cull price was a little above what I paid. its not a bad way of getting numbers up especially if you get to keep a few each time.

 

[talltimber]

You're not gonna buy fat slick 4-6 yr old, 5.5 frame, wide Black angus cows with good bags cheaper than kill around here. Then, or now.

 

[Brute 23]

You're not gonna buy fat slick 4-6 yr old, 5.5 frame, wide Black angus cows with good bags cheaper than kill around here. Then, or now.

Exactly! There is a lot more loss on her if you have to run her to the auction. I'd much rather run a heifer in that didn't breed back.

The reality is there is equal risk on both. Your just picking you poison.

 

[Lucky_P]

If you're breeding and retaining your own replacements... you KNOW what's behind them, and you can breed for what you want... though you may or may not get it on every mating... and sometimes, what you thought you wanted doesn't work.
Calving out heifers isn't without some risk...but I don't know where I'd buy cows of the breeding I have developed... without traveling hundreds of miles and spending way more than I'm prepared to spend for a cow.

We've built up to 75 head of cows from 5 bred cows I'd retained from our previous herd; sold all the others when I went back to grad school and left the 5 with my dad for about 5 years.
Has taken 20 years, kept almost every heifer for a while - should have been more picky and culled heavier, and taken longer to get to this point. Have been breeding away from the 'junk' I kept for 6-7 years now, and still have a little bit of 'trash' to get shed of, but I'm pretty much at the point now that a good producing cow has to leave in order for a heifer to stay, so she'd better be pretty good..