Buck with canine teeth
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Here's another weird one. My best friends' brother was 'yote hunting on an empty pasture (moved the cattle for winter) and found this aborted fawn. Friend of ours owns a processing/taxidermy business (and a hard-core hunter!) and said does most always start with two and quite often abort one.
The severe underbite on this white-tailed deer fetus should be obvious to everyone. Since the fetus had one of the external birth defects that were found to be caused by exposure to the insecticide, imidacloprid, it likely had internal malformations, which caused it to die and be aborted. It also appears to have shorter than normal legs. This is the study that showed what imidacloprid does to exposed fetuses and adult does. (E. H. Berheim, et al. "Effects of Neonicotinoid Insecticides on Physology and Reproductive Characteristics of Captive Female and Fawn White-tailed Deer, March 14, 2019.) https://doi.org/10.1038/s41598-019-40994-9
In large or small groups of wild and domestic grazing animals, including equines, examined for birth defects there was a fairly high prevalence of underbite in those born beginning in spring of 1995, the year after the first use of imidacloprid in 1994. Prior to 1995, underbite on grazing animals was extremely rare and had only been reported on 2 newborn white-tailed deer in scientific literature. In a study of 36 thousand hunter-killed white-tailed deer examined in Michigan in the 1960s, not one was found to have an underbite, which was one of the birth defects the study was looking for.
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The canines on white-tailed deer is not unusual, but does not happen very often. It is not a birth defect and the deer is not a vampire. At one time in the distant past, all the white-tailed deers' ancestors had canine teeth, and elk still do.
Jeanne - Simme Valley
Well-known member
Not a vampire??? Really???
M.Magis
Well-known member
PLEASE stop posting this crap as fact when it's nothing but the imagination of a few people with nothing but free time and an agenda. Every fawn fetus at that stage looks like that, every single one. It's not a defect, it wouldn't have been born that way, and it's not "caused by exposure to insecticide". It's a normal early stage fetus. I've probably seen hundreds of them, that s what they look like.
This is the problem with the internet, anyone with fingers and a keyboard can post made up garbage and pass it off as scientific fact.
Jeanne - Simme Valley
Well-known member
Well said. She has an agenda ....like a dog with a bone. We are the WRONG audience for her preaching. She needs to join a health nut group.
M.Magis, are you a wildlife biologist who studies white-tailed deer? How have you seen hundreds of fetuses? I am a wildlife biologist and I studied white-tailed deer, which I measured, necropsied and photographed, including around 50 fetuses. Here in Montana a normal fetus doesn't look at all like the fetus in the photo on this thread. At no time during development is the lower jaw longer than the upper jaw on a normally developing fetus. You are certainly correct about this, "This is the problem with the internet, anyone with fingers and a keyboard can post made up garbage and pass it off as scientific fact." like you did above. I also necropsied malformed beef calves because neighboring ranchers brought their dead calves to me to necropsy when they were born dead or died soon after birth. Every dead calf diagnosed by a veterinarian as having Weak Calf Syndrome had an underbite, heart and lung defects and an underdeveloped inflamed thymus. The thymus is a newborn mammal's main immune system organ. In addition, every live calf I examined that was diagnosed by a vet with Weak Calf Syndrome had an underbite. There are a lot of photos on Cattletoday of calves with underbite. That costs ranchers a lot of money in lost weight gain. Maybe you don't care, but I do. However, you can "believe" whatever you want, I can't help those who won't help themselves.
chaded
Well-known member
Vampire or no?
Jeanne - Simme Valley
Well-known member
Blah blah blah.
That was very immature, Jeanne! Don't you care about domestic and wild animals? How about little children? They began being born with the same or very similar birth defects as the other mammals, including underbite and overbite in the same time period. One of the most common birth defects on human newborns is heart defects. That was also one of the most common birth defects we found on necropsied grazing animals.
Jeanne - Simme Valley
Well-known member
Well, I can't help myself, so I guess I will hit the ignore button for J Hoy.
Rafter S
Well-known member
They're turning into carnivores. They'll probably start hunting us before long.
50/50Farms
Well-known member
50/50Farms
Well-known member
"Judy Hoy grew up on a cattle ranch and learned at a young age what constitutes normal development in newborn animals. When she was 20, she worked in a large hospital nursery caring for newborn children for 6 months to earn money for college, giving her an education in a normal newborn human's anatomy. She began her adult career as an elementary school teacher and taught in grades 4 through 6 for 12 years. She also was a wildlife artist and a wildlife rehabilitator, mainly in the summer months. Judy's husband, Bob, is a wildlife biologist and worked until he retired as a game warden for Montana Department of Fish, Wildlife and Parks. Judy wrote the book Changing Faces to help bring attention to the multiple birth defects and serious health effects now occurring on newborns of vertebrate and invertebrate species and to the consequences to the biodiversity and face of the planet of overusing pesticides (umbrella term)."
"Citizen-scientist Judy Hoy continues research into malformations"
You're no more a wildlife biologist than I am a priest, though you are a passable damn bunco artist.
greybeard
Well-known member
Maybe JHoy 'identifies' as Bob ..as or a wildlife biologist..
Jeanne - Simme Valley
Well-known member
Judy believes in her role as a teacher.
But, she needs to get off her soap opera with us. I am sure there are lots of organic producers on here. Noone tries to force their ideas on others.
She made her point. It is understood. We are not stupid people. We don't need to be told again and again. You don't need to bring up an ancient thread just to have the opportunity to preach again.
She has nothing to add to our conversations. IMHO
But, she needs to get off her soap opera with us. I am sure there are lots of organic producers on here. Noone tries to force their ideas on others.
She made her point. It is understood. We are not stupid people. We don't need to be told again and again. You don't need to bring up an ancient thread just to have the opportunity to preach again.
She has nothing to add to our conversations. IMHO
That is a great idea.
Jeanne - Simme Valley
Well-known member
Nope. Decided not to.
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