Breeding Philosophy

[1848]

In order to move to the next level, we have to choose. This comes with maturity. When you do thousands and thousands of larger and larger deals, it automatically happens as you have no choice. If, on the other hand, you are stuck in a rut, do the same size deals, the same number of times each year, or a low amount of volume each year, babying the customer, the opposite happens and you have to make more percentage on each person but a lower amount overall is actually made. The higher dollar client actually gets a better deal because less percentage is made on him or her because you were able to work your way up the profit and dollar scale.

This is nothing more then a ballooned version of:

"You spend 90% of your time with the 10% of problem people" :roll:

 

[1848]

[When I was young, I once made deal with an older gentleman wearing overalls. He came to pay cash, allot of cash for one of my products I was selling at the time. His cash was in a brown paper sack. It looked like a lunch sack except he held it like a whiskey bottle. The amount of cash in the paper sack was less than would I wanted to make the deal. Before letting him walk, I decided to take the deal. After all, a bird in the hand is better than a bird is the bush right? WRONG! Within a half an hour he was buying another one of our moderately high products. You know what he did? When it came time to pay, he reach down into his sock and pulled another $1,000 cash out of his sock. I will never forget that![/i]

Sounds like he taught you a good lesson........why complain?

 

[HerefordSire]

[When I was young, I once made deal with an older gentleman wearing overalls. He came to pay cash, allot of cash for one of my products I was selling at the time. His cash was in a brown paper sack. It looked like a lunch sack except he held it like a whiskey bottle. The amount of cash in the paper sack was less than would I wanted to make the deal. Before letting him walk, I decided to take the deal. After all, a bird in the hand is better than a bird is the bush right? WRONG! Within a half an hour he was buying another one of our moderately high products. You know what he did? When it came time to pay, he reach down into his sock and pulled another $1,000 cash out of his sock. I will never forget that![/i]

Sounds like he taught you a good lesson........why complain?

I made the sale but I left $1,000 profit on the table. I misjudged him. I made the error. He out foxed me. I felt foolish all the way to the bank. I cashed a paycheck and felt like a failure. That never happened to me again. As a matter of fact, it made me work harder and listen better and study and understand consumer psychology. One think I found out: If a buyer's lips are moving, they are lying (not all but surprisingly many). Don't ever forget that.

 

[1848]

I cashed a paycheck and felt like a failure. That never happened to me again. As a matter of fact, it made me work harder and listen better and study and understand consumer psychology. One think I found out: If a buyer's lips are moving, they are lying (not all but surprisingly many). Don't ever forget that.[/i]

Hold on...you sold an animal for what you felt it was worth (otherwise you wouldn't have made the deal...."fact"), because you "think" you left one thousand profit on the table? Didn't you get his other thousand?....and sell for the same price again? Maybe I'm missing something here... :shock: You are not the salesman you tout to be. I distinctly remember you saying you have succeeded in everything you put your hands on.... :lol: Wouldn't you have cut him a bulk buy discount if he stated he wanted double up front...of course you would have...so really you didn't loose $1,000 imagined profit...you gained $2,000 and felt bad cause you were out smarted.

I imagine....you must have had a conscience to both, sell in the first place and feel bad in the end....you said earlier "don't let the conscience interfere with the sale...... :shock:

Intepretated - Human

 

[HerefordSire]

I cashed a paycheck and felt like a failure. That never happened to me again. As a matter of fact, it made me work harder and listen better and study and understand consumer psychology. One think I found out: If a buyer's lips are moving, they are lying (not all but surprisingly many). Don't ever forget that.[/i]

Hold on...you sold an animal for what you felt it was worth (otherwise you wouldn't have made the deal...."fact"), because you "think" you left one thousand profit on the table? Didn't you get his other thousand?....and sell for the same price again? Maybe I'm missing something here... :shock: You are not the salesman you tout to be. I distinctly remember you saying you have succeeded in everything you put your hands on.... :lol: Wouldn't you have cut him a bulk buy discount if he stated he wanted double up front...of course you would have...so really you didn't loose $1,000 imagined profit...you gained $2,000 and felt bad cause you were out smarted.

I imagine....you must have had a conscience to both, sell in the first place and feel bad in the end....you said earlier "don't let the conscience interfere with the sale...... :shock:

Intepretated - Human

No is wasn't an animal. If I remember correctly, the initial transaction total was around $9,200. The second transaction was $1,000. Both deals had nothing to do with money, don't you see? It is all a game of strategy except it is a real life game where food gets inserted in mouths to stop growling pains. I know I left $1,000 profit on the table. There is no ifs and buts about it. I made a rookie mistake. The old geezer was smart and looked poor. He took advantage of me and made a fool out of me. Yes, I got his other thousand, but another way to look at it was, he got the other lower priced item for free.

 

[1848]

Yes, I got his other thousand, but another way to look at it was, he got the other lower priced item for free.[/i]

So................you made him a good deal.

 

[HerefordSire]

Yes, I got his other thousand, but another way to look at it was, he got the other lower priced item for free.[/i]

So................you made him a good deal.

You can look at it like that. The way I looked at it, I took the potatoes off of my baby twin son's plate and put them on the old geezer's plate because his lips were moving (you could substitute college education for potatoes). Normally, that would never be an issue as I am not greedy. I have always been generous, especially with material possessions. What I am telling you, is the invisible things are the most important when you liquidate your animals. We have to get top dollar and work the numbers upward because we are professionals and our families are worth it and we work hard for it. When the numbers increase, we cut our percentages so the client gets a better deal and our income does not rise too fast as we are not materially oriented. We care about the customer more than ourselves. In order to help the client, we have to help ourselves first, then we can give the client a better deal.

 

[1848]

You can look at it like that. The way I looked at it, I took the potatoes off of my baby twin son's plate and put them on the old geezer's plate because his lips were moving (you could substitute college education for potatoes). Normally, that would never be an issue as I am not greedy. I have always been generous, especially with material possessions. What I am telling you, is the invisible things are the most important when you liquidate your animals. We have to get top dollar and work the numbers upward because we are professionals and our families are worth it and we work hard for it. When the numbers increase, we cut our percentages so the client gets a better deal and our income does not rise too fast as we are not materially oriented. We care about the customer more than ourselves. In order to help the client, we have to help ourselves first, then we can give the client a better deal.

Ok...............who is "we".....you got a mouse in your pocket? :lol:

See.......now the professional part, invisible things being important, families, and caring about customers, kinda, almost sorta,.....is leaning towards a philosophy.

Congratulations Bidbuckler.........it took you allot of fat to boil down what was the important stock. ;-)

 

[HerefordSire]

You can look at it like that. The way I looked at it, I took the potatoes off of my baby twin son's plate and put them on the old geezer's plate because his lips were moving (you could substitute college education for potatoes). Normally, that would never be an issue as I am not greedy. I have always been generous, especially with material possessions. What I am telling you, is the invisible things are the most important when you liquidate your animals. We have to get top dollar and work the numbers upward because we are professionals and our families are worth it and we work hard for it. When the numbers increase, we cut our percentages so the client gets a better deal and our income does not rise too fast as we are not materially oriented. We care about the customer more than ourselves. In order to help the client, we have to help ourselves first, then we can give the client a better deal.

Ok...............who is "we".....you got a mouse in your pocket? :lol:

See.......now the professional part, invisible things being important, families, and caring about customers, kinda, almost sorta,.....is leaning towards a philosophy.

Congratulations Bidbuckler.........it took you allot of fat to boil down what was the important stock. ;-)

Sounds like a light switch just turned on. It is about time, I was beginning to worry about you. So let me recap just to make sure you understand. You can't help anyone until you help yourself. You have to take care of number one first (your spiritual higher power is the same as yourself). Then you can help your family which is an extension of you through your living blood. Then you can help your client which is usually non-related. You don't help the client get a good deal first and then take care of your family and then take care of yourself. It just doesn't work that way. Believe me. Do you agree 100% now?

 

[1848]

Sounds like a light switch just turned on. It is about time, I was beginning to worry about you. So let me recap just to make sure you understand. You can't help anyone until you help yourself. You have to take care of number one first (your spiritual higher power is the same as yourself). Then you can help your family which is an extension of you through your living blood. Then you can help your client which is usually non-related. You don't help the client get a good deal first and then take care of your family and then take care of yourself. It just doesn't work that way. Believe me. Do you agree 100% now?

Stop!....... :roll:

As if you have convinced me?.......give me a break!

Here is a recap...."Nothing" in my previous posts mentioned taking care of numero uno first! If you read my post you will see I speciffically left that one out.... ;-) So your rhetoric was for naught.

As for you putting words in my mouth......I agree 100%.. :roll:

 

[HerefordSire]

Sounds like a light switch just turned on. It is about time, I was beginning to worry about you. So let me recap just to make sure you understand. You can't help anyone until you help yourself. You have to take care of number one first (your spiritual higher power is the same as yourself). Then you can help your family which is an extension of you through your living blood. Then you can help your client which is usually non-related. You don't help the client get a good deal first and then take care of your family and then take care of yourself. It just doesn't work that way. Believe me. Do you agree 100% now?

Stop!....... :roll:

As if you have convinced me?.......give me a break!

Here is a recap...."Nothing" in my previous posts mentioned taking care of numero uno first! If you read my post you will see I speciffically left that one out.... ;-) So your rhetoric was for naught.

As for you putting words in my mouth......I agree 100%.. :roll:

I almost had you sign on the dotted line. The pen was in your hand and you were taking mental ownership. Then the euphoria faded away. What happened in the interim? Do I have to go back one post? :cboy: I thought your light switch turned on. I guess I was mistaken. I will take three steps back and punt. Now then it is first down and ten and I have the ball.

I may be wrong, but I think you have a strong spiritual upbringing into a family that instilled character values into your head and heart. Am I correct? If I am, do you agree your higher power is the same as yourself (I am no preacher but just bear with me)?

 

[novatech]

Sounds like a light switch just turned on. It is about time, I was beginning to worry about you. So let me recap just to make sure you understand. You can't help anyone until you help yourself. You have to take care of number one first (your spiritual higher power is the same as yourself). Then you can help your family which is an extension of you through your living blood. Then you can help your client which is usually non-related. You don't help the client get a good deal first and then take care of your family and then take care of yourself. It just doesn't work that way. Believe me. Do you agree 100% now?

I find this to be a very self centered philosophy. The problem is that there is no point at which you are not taking everything, as you and your family will require more and more and anything you ever give would be taking away from you or your family.

I have found that giving leads to success.
A gentleman by the name of Zig Ziggler was giving a lecture on success that I attended many years ago. After the lecture I asked him how one becomes successful when you have nothing. He said "When you get down to your last $10 find someone that is worse off than you and give it to them. You will be rewarded 10 fold." I did just that. I have practiced giving ever since, and have not been broke since.
This does not mean I believe in an average price for higher quality.
If I build a better mouse trap you can bet I am going to charge for it. I cannot see selling a high quality bull to an old farmer who does not appreciate it at a price that I could get double or triple for elsewhere. This is not helping the farmer that has already proven that he has no intention of improving his stock.
Better to give him the knowledge and let him work his way up the way others have.

 

[HerefordSire]

Sounds like a light switch just turned on. It is about time, I was beginning to worry about you. So let me recap just to make sure you understand. You can't help anyone until you help yourself. You have to take care of number one first (your spiritual higher power is the same as yourself). Then you can help your family which is an extension of you through your living blood. Then you can help your client which is usually non-related. You don't help the client get a good deal first and then take care of your family and then take care of yourself. It just doesn't work that way. Believe me. Do you agree 100% now?

I find this to be a very self centered philosophy. The problem is that there is no point at which you are not taking everything, as you and your family will require more and more and anything you ever give would be taking away from you or your family.

I have found that giving leads to success.
A gentleman by the name of Zig Ziggler was giving a lecture on success that I attended many years ago. After the lecture I asked him how one becomes successful when you have nothing. He said "When you get down to your last $10 find someone that is worse off than you and give it to them. You will be rewarded 10 fold." I did just that. I have practiced giving ever since, and have not been broke since.
This does not mean I believe in an average price for higher quality.
If I build a better mouse trap you can bet I am going to charge for it. I cannot see selling a high quality bull to an old farmer who does not appreciate it at a price that I could get double or triple for elsewhere. This is not helping the farmer that has already proven that he has no intention of improving his stock.
Better to give him the knowledge and let him work his way up the way others have.

Don't take this the wrong way...you shouldn't have believed Ziggy. One of the best salespeople in the world, theoretically. Instead of selling, he was recruiting vulnerable people like you to give.

 

[Brandonm2]

It seems that most of the conflict on the breed board arises from a difference in, or perhaps the lack of, a breeding philosophy. In a recent exchange on the breed board it once again became obvious that a plan, however sound it may seem to the conceiver, is nothing without a philosophy. The Wikipedia Encyclopedia interprets philosophy as difficult to define and even concludes that there is "no straightforward definition", and that it is "notoriously difficult". There is however, some agreement that the philosophical method is rational, systematic and critical, or characterized by logical argument. I found this amusing especially looking at our differences of opinion on the boards….it sounded familiar…

So, what are the philosophies of the different breeders out there? I am sure we will vary from operation to operation depending on our goals, and the breeds. My philosophy is relatively simple. I think it is important to provide my customers a quality product which is based and developed on sound breeding and management practices. I try not to chase popular, but lean towards more proven genetic lines, while trying to prove mine in the process. My goals are not much different then anyone else one this board with the exception that I am in no hurry to profit on the uneducated, uninformed, or trend influenced buyer. How about y'all?

I have followed this thread and this was a good post a lot of the rest was a good fictional read.

The original post in the string WAS the best post of the string. Since then.......instead of breeding philosphies it has devolved into a discussion on ethical extreme case scenarios (situations most of us will NEVER ever have to worry about) with a few insults thrown in for good measure. I apologize to the board for my role in being part of highjacking this thread.

 

[Brandonm2]

I think I may be a little more realistic in all this because I have the advantage of knowing I'm not a Hudson size operation and most others on here are not either.... :roll: (even if we have some want-to-be's)

You need to understand that most of my customers (as with most of the individuals on this board) are local, humble people...and I would want them to have a good experience, and honest deal and learn a little if they have the inclination too. Not arbitrailly throw an outrageous price out there hoping they will bite because I think my name is worth it. We are not just talking about "Big Boys" as much as Bidbuckle would hope his experience on this board would lead him to believe. This is about philosophy........not who is who.

When you said " If somebody offers $900 or $150,000 for a cow, presumably they have a plan for that animal." you finally came close to getting my point....educated and informed. If a buyer has a pocket full of money but don't know squat about cattle, the breed, the breeding and says they want my cow for 50,000, I'm gunna help them invest wisely.

I am not so arrogant to believe I have one single cow in my operation worth 50,000 dollars, so why should I let a buyer believe or convince them otherwise. "Most" operations in the country don't either.....get real.

It is probably a safe bet that EVERYBODY on here is NOT a running Hudson sized or reputation operation. That said it is possible (through the availability of AI and ET) for anybody in the seedstock business (with enough time and patience) to breed comparable quality genetics. IF the phenotype is excellent, the individual performance EPDs are there, the bloodlines are worthy, etc, I see nothing at all wrong with demanding an elite price. If you have 50 reg. cows and there are 2 or 3 that are a cut above the rest and better than what you see in area seedstock sales, keep those 2 or 3 too build whole cow families around, don't give away those genetics for ~$3000 (and I freely admit that I have never owned, bought, or sold a $3000+ cow). Heck I could make or spend $3000 this week and my finances not be much better or worse off six months from now because of it. Now $50,000 is an entirely different scenario. You have to be willing to evaluate your program objectively. Don't price yourself out of the market; but don't be so humble that you don't get market value for what you have to sell either.

 

[1848]

...it is possible (through the availability of AI and ET) for anybody in the seedstock business (with enough time and patience) to breed comparable quality genetics. IF the phenotype is excellent, the individual performance EPDs are there, the bloodlines are worthy, etc, I see nothing at all wrong with demanding an elite price..

Absolutely, but elite price means different things to different people based on their upbringing and financial status... ;-)

Don't price yourself out of the market; but don't be so humble that you don't get market value for what you have to sell either.

Good advice... :nod:

 

[1848]

The original post in the string WAS the best post of the string. Since then.......instead of breeding philosphies it has devolved into a discussion on ethical extreme case scenarios (situations most of us will NEVER ever have to worry about) with a few insults thrown in for good measure. I apologize to the board for my role in being part of highjacking this thread.

Sorry............

P.S. Highjacking is tough to control......