Breeding & Grasstime

[CattleAnnie]

(Didn't know what else to call this topic.)

As I bide my time waiting for calves, I've been mulling over some information that someone shared with me a couple days ago.

I was visiting with another member of our pasture association, and we were talking about lulls in the herd during calving time.

I had eight days between the last calf born in Feb till yesterday, and this coincided with the turn out dates for the herd onto grass (as we don't have sufficient grass at home for the cows, they stay on hay till turnout).

The other person commented that they had been talking to some of the other members and they too were having a big time span inbetween births.

What was interesting was that she had gone to a nutrition seminar a few weeks ago, and the speaker made a statement to the effect that when cows go from hay to grass, the change in nutrition will throw them off their heat cycles.

Anyone else have any information on this phenomenon? I do understand that proper diet is important, which is why our cattle have minerals to supplement them with the hay, but I was still a bit suprised to hear that grass can change their metabolism to such an extent.

I'd love to learn more if anyone is willing to share their knowledge.


Take care.

 

[dun]

All I have are my own observations and since we AI I don;t know about actual fertility, but when the grass starts greening it seems like there will be a bunch of them that all start cycling right away.

dun

 

[ALACOWMAN]

Must be the high levels of protein and potassium in the lush spring grass that wakes their reproductive system up.

 

[cedar]

North Dakota State research says; spring grass at 80% moisture, does not give a cow adequate dry matter. The cow can not eat enough of this grass to meet her nutritional needs. That is why you will have a lull in your calving until the grass dries down enough to provide nutritional needs.

 

[ALACOWMAN]

Your right on about the moisture content being high but that dont explain the cows cycling when put on spring pasture

 

[dun]

Your right on about the moisture content being high but that dont explain the cows cycling when put on spring pasture

Since we have the same situation I think it may very well be the type of grass. Ours is fescue and clover with a little OG thrown in.

dun

 

[Jeanne - Simme Valley]

Not sure about other areas, but around here we have BUN (Blood urea nitrate). When the grass is fast growing in the spring, it is SUPER high PROTEIN. The real high protein turns to amonia. Their urine burns 3' circle spots in the pasture (which of course you don't see for a couple of weeks). The cows cycle like crazy (as Dun reported) but their PH level is so "off" in the uterus, they will not conceive. They are healthy & are cycling just fine, just don't conceive.
For this reason, we keep our cows on "poor hay" if we get some, and turn out on new grass during day, but locked up with hay during nite. Theory being, is that we're diluting the protein. Also, could feed corn, but not an option in our operation. Don't have grain feeders for the cows & feeding on the ground is NOT an option because of the wet/muddy conditions.
So, it fits. All the cows that cycle when you turn out, get bred but do not settle - if you're having a BUN problem.
Actually, I try to get as many as possible AI'd prior to grass. I have much better conception.

 

[ALACOWMAN]

Not sure about other areas, but around here we have BUN (Blood urea nitrate). When the grass is fast growing in the spring, it is SUPER high PROTEIN. The real high protein turns to amonia. Their urine burns 3' circle spots in the pasture (which of course you don't see for a couple of weeks). The cows cycle like crazy (as Dun reported) but their PH level is so "off" in the uterus, they will not conceive. They are healthy & are cycling just fine, just don't conceive.
For this reason, we keep our cows on "poor hay" if we get some, and turn out on new grass during day, but locked up with hay during nite. Theory being, is that we're diluting the protein. Also, could feed corn, but not an option in our operation. Don't have grain feeders for the cows & feeding on the ground is NOT an option because of the wet/muddy conditions.
So, it fits. All the cows that cycle when you turn out, get bred but do not settle - if you're having a BUN problem.
Actually, I try to get as many as possible AI'd prior to grass. I have much better conception.

i have too give you a big ol thumbs up miss know it all you know your business ;-)

 

[CowCop]

~

I love your explanation of it Jeanne.

We do a similar method here.

When we turn the cows out to spring pasture *around* May 15th, we put out many round bales of our lower quality hay.

Also helps them transition to the high protein grass, with less diarrhea. Keeps them a little cleaner.

We do this for about 2 weeks or so.

 

[Dana Kopp]

We have noticed the pausing in our herd too. We attributed it to a combination of factors:
1. the move itself - handling & hauling, new pasture to checkout, re-establishing pecking order

2. grass nutrition - faster growing grass on our river bottom pastures doesn't have the same nutrients

I also have a suspicion that the turning out with the bull may bring them into heat but it is more like a false heat in a horse, not necessarily ovulating. I recently read the abstract of a published research article on using fenceline exposure to bulls to bring cows into heat for breeding. Seems like it worked somewhat like teasing a horse, except they then turned the bull(s) out after several days of "contact" - seems like it worked for them. I can't remember details, I'll have to look it up and add it later. You'd have to have good fence to be sure!!

 

[Jeanne - Simme Valley]

i have too give you a big ol thumbs up miss know it all you know your business

Thanks - I think?
Yes, we usually do the hay/grass thing for about 2 weeks also. It kind of works two fold. At that time of year, it's still dark/near daybreak when I have to heat check. If something needs breeding that morning (shows sign of standing during nite) I have to seperate her, get her in the barn in the chute by 6 am so hubby can breed her before going to work (at 6:15). Don't have enough daylight to observe & have time to pull them in from a field - even a close field. So keeping them locked up in lot during nite helps heat checks.

 

[ALACOWMAN]

i have too give you a big ol thumbs up miss know it all you know your business

Thanks - I think?
Yes, we usually do the hay/grass thing for about 2 weeks also. It kind of works two fold. At that time of year, it's still dark/near daybreak when I have to heat check. If something needs breeding that morning (shows sign of standing during nite) I have to seperate her, get her in the barn in the chute by 6 am so hubby can breed her before going to work (at 6:15). Don't have enough daylight to observe & have time to pull them in from a field - even a close field. So keeping them locked up in lot during nite helps heat checks.

trust me its a compliment, just like the way you know the details :cboy:

 

[Jeanne - Simme Valley]

i have too give you a big ol thumbs up miss know it all you know your business

Thanks - I think?
Yes, we usually do the hay/grass thing for about 2 weeks also. It kind of works two fold. At that time of year, it's still dark/near daybreak when I have to heat check. If something needs breeding that morning (shows sign of standing during nite) I have to seperate her, get her in the barn in the chute by 6 am so hubby can breed her before going to work (at 6:15). Don't have enough daylight to observe & have time to pull them in from a field - even a close field. So keeping them locked up in lot during nite helps heat checks.

trust me its a compliment, just like the way you know the details :cboy:

:oops: Thank you :oops: I just like to share mistakes/problems we've come across to help someone avoid the pitfalls.

 

[ALACOWMAN]

its people with knowledge like this that can make a world of differance to folks. think about it how many people would even suspect something like this

 

[Jeanne - Simme Valley]

Since we AI 100%, a consecutive group of repeats is VERY noticable. HATE repeats - almost as much as I hate twins - well probably MORE. Anyway, year after year I noticed this block of time with 80% repeats - ugggh. Also, we keep our calendar marked to which paddocks on what days we move cattle. Started seeing the "burnt" circles in the pastures & started researching. Burnt circle fields started co-inciding with repeats. Contacted Cornell specialists & got my answer. Still get repeats during that time period, but not nearly as bad.

 

[CattleAnnie]

Dana,

Understand what you're saying, as I used to chalk it up to part of the stress of getting the herd out to grass.

In our case though, we had the bulls turned out with the cows for over a month before the herd hit grass (same as the other folks I share grass with that I've been able to visit with), and although it's not unusual to have a three or four days without a calf in that period, to go in some cases up to two weeks between births is making us start to wonder.

Personally, I don't know if the nutrionist was correct or not; I'm almost wondering if it wasn't the wolves hassling the stock, as the missing stock numbers did take another climb from the year previous.

Thanks to everyone for sharing their experiences and info - I really enjoyed reading it and looking forward to more.



Take care.

 

[buckaroo_bif]

Very good info Jeanne, thanks !

 

[ALACOWMAN]

I knew that the spots were from urine and thought that it was just the high nitrogen content burning the grass but thats as far as i took it.