Stocker Steve
Well-known member
Standard advice is to booster 2 to 4 weeks after an initial vaccination, and then annually after that. A few folks booster twice for a total of three shots. Have you seen any data on how effective this is?
Booster Effectiveness ?
- Thread starter Stocker Steve
- Start date
Help Support CattleToday:
Silver
Well-known member
Stocker Steve said:
I've been trying to find literature on the efficacy of a killed vaccine that goes un boosted. As in, do you only get another 3 or 4 percent coverage, or if left un boosted does the coverage go to zero? I'm just curious as to the numbers but can't find any.
Stocker Steve
Well-known member
Lots of little efficacy bell curves over time out there but they are just pictorial selling tools. I tried to get some booster data from a KS vet at their Stocker Day and he just gave me the run around. An operator came up after and said to use Inforce 3 before turnout for pasture pneumonia.
I think the scary truth is there are quite a few animals, especially incoming sales barn cattle, that do not respond much to vaccination. We either have to get the stress off w/o injections, or add more stress by handling them to get a percentage with (higher) immunity.
The studies I have seen compare vaccine A to vaccine B - - but not to a well managed none vaccinated group.
I think the scary truth is there are quite a few animals, especially incoming sales barn cattle, that do not respond much to vaccination. We either have to get the stress off w/o injections, or add more stress by handling them to get a percentage with (higher) immunity.
The studies I have seen compare vaccine A to vaccine B - - but not to a well managed none vaccinated group.
Easy, use live.
We do use killed vaccine on unknown pregnant cattle but all others get a live on arrival. Our own herd is on a live program and I and our vet feel that there is far better coverage than the killed. Make sure you vaccinate in the open period a month before the bulls go out the first time or two. The pharmaceutical companies say after a couple years you can vaccinate at any time of year. Our experience was a few aborted calves when we did that. Each to their own.
We have also bought in cows that were on a killed program. A couple died from BRD.
We do use killed vaccine on unknown pregnant cattle but all others get a live on arrival. Our own herd is on a live program and I and our vet feel that there is far better coverage than the killed. Make sure you vaccinate in the open period a month before the bulls go out the first time or two. The pharmaceutical companies say after a couple years you can vaccinate at any time of year. Our experience was a few aborted calves when we did that. Each to their own.
We have also bought in cows that were on a killed program. A couple died from BRD.
Stocker Steve
Well-known member
gcreekrch We have also bought in cows that were on a killed program. A couple died from BRD. [/quote said:
Buck Randall
Well-known member
- Joined
- Jun 5, 2019
- Messages
- 2,697
- Reaction score
- 3,148
I don't have any specific data for you, but the results are going to be extremely variable depending on what vaccines you're using and the condition of the cattle being vaccinated. For animals that have already developed immunity, the extra vaccination (especially modified live injectables) is only going to serve as an added stressor and drag on the immune system.Stocker Steve said:
In general, I would say that if someone isn't getting an adequate response from two rounds of vaccination, they have a management problem, not a vaccine problem.
Buck Randall
Well-known member
- Joined
- Jun 5, 2019
- Messages
- 2,697
- Reaction score
- 3,148
Silver said:
Cattle vaccinated with killed vaccine don't generally develop what we call "protective immunity". This means that they are still vulnerable to infection if challenged. However, their immune system does "remember" the vaccination and will respond faster than unvaccinated cattle would when exposed to a pathogen. In that case, the pathogen itself is serving as the booster. There hasn't been a lot of research into this (who would fund it?) but I've seen suggestions that this immune "memory" can last for years in some cases.
By the standards that the FDA sets for vaccine efficacy, unboosted killed vaccines provide zero coverage, but that doesn't mean that there is no value.
Silver
Well-known member
Thanks Buck, that's interesting.
Ebenezer
Well-known member
"A few folks booster twice for a total of three shots." If the average vaccination round is 85% effective (have read that in the past) the 3X deal gives the 15% some chance of getting coverage. That would be the best reason I can see what 3X is used. I've done that in the past for that reason.
Jeanne - Simme Valley
Well-known member
Like Buck said, I have always been told at meetings with pharmaceutical reps & vets, that killed vaccines have 0 protection if you do not booster. You might as well squirt it out on the ground.
I do give two shots of MLV about 30 days apart first time I vaccinate calves (after they got Inforce 3 at birth). I do it because (like Eb posted) you "generally" only get about 85% effective from 1st shot. You have to booster part of the first shot, so if I'm going to stick them again for the BRSV booster, might as well give the whole vaccine to shoot for 100% coverage.
I do give two shots of MLV about 30 days apart first time I vaccinate calves (after they got Inforce 3 at birth). I do it because (like Eb posted) you "generally" only get about 85% effective from 1st shot. You have to booster part of the first shot, so if I'm going to stick them again for the BRSV booster, might as well give the whole vaccine to shoot for 100% coverage.
Silver
Well-known member
Killed vaccines are so cheap there is no reason I can think of not to give the booster. But I would l have a hard time believing the rep that says not giving the booster is a total waste. What Buck says makes sense. The initial shot must trigger the immune system in to some sort of a response or there would be no point in doing it. And I agree, the pharmaceutical companies aren't going to fund a study to prove that less of their product may be required.
greggy
Well-known member
If they suggest the periods, then the companies should be able to provide why, and maybe study or data.
Also, I notice here people seem to give a lot of drugs like antibiotic....dont do your shots then...I believe animal should be healthy and drug free and I would follow the instruction.
Have heard a number of people say you can do more than the reccomended....I have, as sometimes it is not clear the injection was done right, I have also accidentally gone through a skin fold on sheep squirting it onto ground, or had a lot leak from a site, so err on extra rather than a miss.
We have some basic vacs for sheep and cattle, just dose size changes, cant explain that since sheep may be 200lb...calf 200lb...but a bull 2000lb...the calf or bull get same dose....twice the sheep dose.
Also, I notice here people seem to give a lot of drugs like antibiotic....dont do your shots then...I believe animal should be healthy and drug free and I would follow the instruction.
Have heard a number of people say you can do more than the reccomended....I have, as sometimes it is not clear the injection was done right, I have also accidentally gone through a skin fold on sheep squirting it onto ground, or had a lot leak from a site, so err on extra rather than a miss.
We have some basic vacs for sheep and cattle, just dose size changes, cant explain that since sheep may be 200lb...calf 200lb...but a bull 2000lb...the calf or bull get same dose....twice the sheep dose.
