Bloody discharge...and in pain....UPDATE

[deaconcreek]

I have a heifer that was due 4/20, this morning I noticed she had some bloody discharge coming from her vulva. I have been watching her for two weeks and her udder is huge, but her vulva is not really swollen. I can never seem to catch them right before or when they calf, so is this bloody stuff normal? I have seen the gooey white stuff but never blood. She doesn't look in pain, and she is eating. New to all this, so not sure what is normal and what is call for alarm.
Just checked her again and she is in labor.....mooing alot, lots of bloody water discharge, walking backwards, kicking belly. Is the bloody water a sign of problems. Her I could probably sleeve up and check, although I'm not sure if I would know what I was feeling.

 

[bward]

It sounds like the placenta is detaching prematurely. If this is the case the calf may be oxygen deprived when it is born. I had a cow discharge alarming amounts of blood as you described and although we quickly pulled the calf, he died. The entire placenta followed him out. Get someone to help you check the calfs progress.... ie call a vet.

 

[jersey lilly]

Some blood is normal, in delivery......if it's mixed in with the mucas lookin stuff.....and not in large amounts I'd say things were normal. If it's in large amounts and lots of bright red, I'd say ya needa call a vet. But one person's opionion of alot is different than someone elses, especially if you've never watched a cow give birth. I see your post was about 4:30 am this morning, anything happens since then? You should have a calf on the ground by now if things went smoothly. Mooin alot, kickin, and walkin backwards are all signs birth that's close.
Let us know how everthang turned out.

 

[deaconcreek]

Well things did not go well. I called the vet out, she got here at 10:00 am. We got the cow in the chute and she went nuts, had to let her out. We were working her back around to put her back in and the vet says she has another emergency call up the road from us and she can't wait. She LEFT !!!! I can't believe she just left....Anyway we got her back in the chute, I checked her (first time I had done this) everything was positioned right, since I had never pulled a calf, I decided to wait for the vet. I let her back out and she calmed down, and 1 hour later she delivered a 112# bull calf that was dead. She is ok, and the vet showed back up 2 hours after she left. I said a few choice things and needless to say I am looking for a new vet this morning. Our bulls EPD's for birth weight are low, and the others we have were average of 72#, although the cow is a big girl, this just puts the icing on the cake. The bull is out of here. Although I can't be sure if it would have made a difference if the vet had stayed, I think she should have waited the 15 mins it took me to get her back in. This was the first calf for this heifer, even though she is 4 and a big cow, the vet could have cost me both of them.

 

[Jeanne - Simme Valley]

First, if you see blood PRIOR to any sign of labor - this is a warning sign of something wrong. There should never be blood prior to labor.
Second, it is common for "older" first calf heifers to having dystocia due to larger calves. Did you purposely keep this "heifer" open all this time??? If not, if she was a hard breeder - she would be hamburg for sure in my herd.
My females calve at 2 years old or get shipped (unless there is a REALLY good reason - like a small twin).

 

[deaconcreek]

No we bought her when she was almost three and she was breed by our bull last year. She was a young girls pet at one time and they never bred her. I really don't want to ship her, she did finally deliver it alone. Hate to learn a lesson the hard way, but now we know what to look for now and Will not make the same mistake twice.

 

[Jeanne - Simme Valley]

Well, by right, a 4 year old should easily have a 112# calf, but being a virgin makes a big difference. I don't think the birthing killed the calf, I think something was wrong prior to expelling the calf. But, if she is the only one with a large calf, I wouldn't blame the bull.
Bward may have hit it on the head - "placenta is detaching prematurely".

 

[deaconcreek]

Bward may have hit it on the head - "placenta is detaching prematurely".

Is there any reason that this could be happening? Our first calf this year was a 50# bull calf to a heifer, and the same thing happened. Is it odd to have two in one year do this? Is there something I need to have the vet check for (when I find a new one) ?

 

[Jeanne - Simme Valley]

Can't answer that. Could be a heritable problem??? Could be nutrition - minerals (or lacking of)?? I always thought it was a "one time oddity" but don't know what would cause it.

 

[norriscathy]

This was the first calf for this heifer, even though she is 4 and a big cow, the vet could have cost me both of them.

GOOD large animal vets (cows, not horses!) are almost an impossibility to find around here. Call one vet out four times and he killed four cows! Tried some new feed and cows were staggering around drunk with 6 dead; one vet said it was to cold to come out; another vet came out and said he thought one of the dead cows had fallen in the creek and broken her neck. He gave one cow than was down a IV of calcium and THEN started drawing blood to send off, He even said "guess I should have drawn blood before medicating the cow". I got one horror story after another. If you can find a GOOD cow vet; doesn't matter if he's a hundred miles away or charges you double; you sure better thank your stars you found him and do whatever it takes to keep him happy and coming out.

Norris

 

[norriscathy]

. Our bulls EPD's for birth weight are low, and the others we have were average of 72#, although the cow is a big girl, this just puts the icing on the cake. The bull is out of here.

Sounds like you've got good birth weights except for the one cow. Don't blame the bull if this is the only "out of bounds" birth weight he's thrown. The cow is actually more responsible for large birth weights than the bull. We've had several cows that just kept the calves to long in the "cooker" and delivered 110# + calves. Sometimes these cows would have a gestation period of up to 2 weeks longer than normal. A couple of extra days in the cooker can make a BIG difference in birth weight. IMO it sounds like you need to cull the cow not the bull.

Norris

 

[DavisBeefmasters]

Before sending the bull off... seriously look at the cow, when was she in heat? Did the calf stay in too long? etc. Look at the other cows bred to the bull as well for their results... may be the cow.

Additionally, do you have a new herd of girls together? If you are just starting your herd and the mommas were establishing who the "queen of the herd" is... then the head butting to the sides at later stages of pregnancies can cause seperation of the placenta... we had this when we first were building our herd, one heifer delivered her first calf dead and 2 months early (vet suspects detached placenta and mom aborted)... also read lots of articles at that time on abortions and problems with deliveries based on mineral deficiencies (wasn't our case), pine needles (not near us), and moldy hay (also not our case)...

...just my 2 cents...

 

[Central Fl Cracker]

norriscathy

"The cow is actually more responsible for large birth weights than the bull"
I thought the bull controlled the calf weight.

 

[dun]

norriscathy

"The cow is actually more responsible for large birth weights than the bull"
I thought the bull controlled the calf weight.

Genetically the bull contributes half, but the cow is the factory. She had carry genes for high BW just like a bull, but if the facotry is working over time or works a late shift and holds on an extra couple of days or a week, she had more of an input.

dun

 

[norriscathy]

norriscathy

"The cow is actually more responsible for large birth weights than the bull"
I thought the bull controlled the calf weight.

Genetically the bull contributes half, but the cow is the factory. She had carry genes for high BW just like a bull, but if the facotry is working over time or works a late shift and holds on an extra couple of days or a week, she had more of an input.

dun

Well put Dun!

Norris

 

[Central Fl Cracker]

Thanks Dun
I did not no that but I am learning something new everyday which for us Cubicle Cowboys that is why this board is so great.

 

[Jeanne - Simme Valley]

Yes, the cow is the biggest factor in BW. She, not only can incubate them longer, some cows simply put more nutrition into the growing fetus than others - they are what I call, fetus developers. They like to grow um BIG!!. And the bull only contributes the 50% genes, cow has environment to contend with - hot, cold, lots of feed, poor feed. Cow makes the difference!!!

 

[deaconcreek]

The cow is a big like I said, we have measured her and estimate her weight at close to 1700#. She dwarfs our bull and other cows. We have considered getting rid of her just for that reason, she is 61" high at the back, nice and long, but just a huge cow. So your right she probably had alot to due with the calf size. As for the bull, we are going to use him this year and get rid of him, not because of the calves we are getting, our herd is small and we would benifit much more from AIing. They have not had moldy hay, they have free choice good minerals all the time, they have been together for over a year, so that leaves something genetically or a problem we don't know about. Since i can not find another vet, I have called and requested the ONLY vet in that office that knows cattle to come out this weekend and do a complete blood work up on the herd. Any other suggestions would be appreciated. As for the vet problem we are kindda stuck, there are tons of small animal vets around, but the same large animal vet has three different offices in the surrounding counties, they have one vet that is great with cows, so from now on if I can't get him I will just have to do it myself. Also the cow was 8 days over due by my calculations.