Blood/DNA test to detect a free martin

[ANAZAZI]

:deadhorse:
:deadhorse:
:deadhorse:

 

[Anonymous]

Why not try to breed a freemartin? :mrgreen: :deadhorse: :banana:

 

[Massey135]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freemartin

:deadhorse:

Funny thing is, the first sentence in this link disputes what's been excepted as fact in this topic. How the hell could an animal with "non functioning ovaries", give birth?

:nod: :nod:

That was horribly worded and I didn't complete my thought so don't nod yet. The ones that ARE freemartins that fuse late enough to still be heifers and breed back give male genetics to their calf. It is extremely rare but it does happen.

 

[regolith]

:nod: :nod:

That was horribly worded and I didn't complete my thought so don't nod yet. The ones that ARE freemartins that fuse late enough to still be heifers and breed back give male genetics to their calf. It is extremely rare but it does happen.

What defines a free Martin then? I guess I just thought they were sterile females generally as a result of being a twin?

Good practical definition that will help the average cattleman decide what to do when a mixed set of twins lands at his feet.

I'm open to the idea that the occasional freemartin might be able to breed. Have no idea about cp's hypothesis - that her male twin DNA is incorporated into the gametes and passed on to the calf? It wouldn't make her the sire of the calf, it would make a calf with three parents - sire, dam and uncle. Could that cause a sterile female calf or would it be a normal heifer with random Y chromosomes floating around? Are we talking one in ten million or one in ten billion?

Here's one to play with while we're :deadhorse:
On another forum one AI bull was noted to have sired two sets of mixed twins in one herd while all the other bulls used had thrown single calves. Should I drop the bull from my breeding program?

 

[ANAZAZI]

Here's one to play with while we're :deadhorse:
On another forum one AI bull was noted to have sired two sets of mixed twins in one herd while all the other bulls used had thrown single calves. Should I drop the bull from my breeding program?

:lol2: :lol2: :lol2: :banana:

 

[ANAZAZI]

I'm open to the idea that the occasional freemartin might be able to breed. Have no idea about cp's hypothesis - that her male twin DNA is incorporated into the gametes and passed on to the calf? It wouldn't make her the sire of the calf, it would make a calf with three parents - sire, dam and uncle. Could that cause a sterile female calf or would it be a normal heifer with random Y chromosomes floating around? Are we talking one in ten million or one in ten billion?

Such a calf would be a bull...

 

[Nite Hawk]

There is a story out there that twin heifer / bull calves that share a placenta, the heifer is freemartin, and if they have seperate placentas she is okay. Does anyone know if this is a grapevine story or true? sounds "fishy" to me, but lots of other animals are male / female twins and okay--(sheep, goats, etc etc) Any thoughts?
Nite Hawk

 

[pdfangus]

for the first ime ever I am tempted to unsubscribe from a thread....

this topic is not worth all this thought time and effort.

the number of breedable heifers born twin to a bull that would be fertile is so small that it is a useless pursuit....but it seems to be the nature of man to pursue the impossible just to say they can.

Seldom is the freemartin heifer ever worth such pursuit and the reasons for same just totally elude me. pursuit of extremes in the cattle business is seldom a profitable endeavor. Pursuit of breedable freemartins (for reasons that elude me) is such a pursuit of extremes.

the species we deal with are bovines....what happens in equines or caprines or ovines or swine or humanoids is irrelevant.

is the concept of the fact of a free martin irrelevant becasue chickens lay eggs?

 

[milkmaid]

Freemartinism occurs in cattle because of fusion between the heifer's placenta and bull's placenta. Fusion does not occur in species such as horses, goats, sheep, dogs, cats, pigs, etc even though the offspring may be mixed male/female, because the placentas do not fuse. In cattle, fusion results in the heifer being affected by the bull calf's hormones (produced earlier in gestation) and her reproductive tract regresses - severity differs between cases.

I don't believe the freemartin actually has DNA from the bull twin; an animal's DNA is set when fusion of egg and sperm happens. The freemartin does have abnormal hormone levels compared to a normal heifer (because she has been affected by specific male hormones from the bull calf), which is what the blood test is checking for.

If she cycles, settles, calves - she is not a freemartin.

All our cattle have 2 chromosomes - XX (female) or XY (male). Any animal that is XXY, XYY, XXX, etc has some serious problems. Humans with three chromosomes have major problems too - google it.

 

[pdfangus]

Freemartinism occurs in cattle because of fusion between the heifer's placenta and bull's placenta. Fusion does not occur in species such as horses, goats, sheep, dogs, cats, pigs, etc even though the offspring may be mixed male/female, because the placentas do not fuse. In cattle, fusion results in the heifer being affected by the bull calf's hormones (produced earlier in gestation) and her reproductive tract regresses - severity differs between cases.

I don't believe the freemartin actually has DNA from the bull twin; an animal's DNA is set when fusion of egg and sperm happens. The freemartin does have abnormal hormone levels compared to a normal heifer (because she has been affected by specific male hormones from the bull calf), which is what the blood test is checking for.

If she cycles, settles, calves - she is not a freemartin.

All our cattle have 2 chromosomes - XX (female) or XY (male). Any animal that is XXY, XYY, XXX, etc has some serious problems. Humans with three chromosomes have major problems too - google it.

THIS IS WHAT i HAVE BEEN TAUGHT ALL MY LIFE....
THE ONLY THING NOT STATED HERE IS THE MINOR FRACTIONAL NUMBER OF SUCH HEIFERS THAT WILL BREED....
NOT ENOUGH TO WARRANT CHASING AFTER THEM....
PICK A GOOD HEIFER THAT IS NOT A TWIN AND GO AFTER REAL PRODUCTION.

 

[dun]

THE ONLY THING NOT STATED HERE IS THE MINOR FRACTIONAL NUMBER OF SUCH HEIFERS THAT WILL BREED....
NOT ENOUGH TO WARRANT CHASING AFTER THEM....
PICK A GOOD HEIFER THAT IS NOT A TWIN AND GO AFTER REAL PRODUCTION.

It still dpends on the genetics. The only one we had tested was sired by a bull that had died and no more semen was avaliable.

 

[backhoeboogie]

THE ONLY THING NOT STATED HERE IS THE MINOR FRACTIONAL NUMBER OF SUCH HEIFERS THAT WILL BREED....
NOT ENOUGH TO WARRANT CHASING AFTER THEM....
PICK A GOOD HEIFER THAT IS NOT A TWIN AND GO AFTER REAL PRODUCTION.

It still dpends on the genetics. The only one we had tested was sired by a bull that had died and no more semen was avaliable.

Maybe I could understand something like that - but betting on worse than 9 to 1 odds is bad gambling to start with. I've culled way better heifers than what I saw one person gambling on two years ago. That one was pure emotional with no logic considered.