Black Red Question.Not what you think.

[hillsdown]

This is the scenario:

A black and red herd of females.
If you use a black homozygous bull will you get black calves out of all red cows as well as all black cows?

Thank you.

I am getting a new clean up bull and am thinking of different option's other than red.

 

[dun]

A homozygous black bull will throw all black calves when bred to red cows. The calves will be heterozygous black and if bred to a red animal will have a 50:50 chance of the calf being red

 

[hillsdown]

Thank you.

Now how do I ensure the bull is homozygous can I request DNA testing etc or does a black from a black for so many generations insure it?OR should it be on there registration papers?

Now part two:
a heterozygous black bull, will that give me a red to a red and a black to a black?

Sorry for asking the same question fifty million times, but I appreciate your replies.

 

[cypressfarms]

HD,

I also answered on your other thread you posted in a different category, & used a real example from my herd.

 

[goodbeef]

Yes DNA testing would be the best guarantee, but if ur bull is registered u should have a resonably good idea thru the pedigree, if it is not a pure bred black angus, even that isnt a garantee, had a black angus once that liked to throw red calves. now for the second part- a hetero bull on red cows will throw a red calf 50% of the time, and depending on the black cows if they are homo, or hetero black the bull would always throw black calves or could throw , 25% red. The breakdown on the color of calves of a cow herd that is 50/50 red and black, with a hetero black bull with all black cows being homo black, u could expect 75%black 25%red. now if the black cows were also all hetero, expect in theory, 5/8 to be black, and 3/8 to be red. i know its alot to follow.

 

[hillsdown]

i know its alot to follow.

No I got it thank you that all makes a lot of sense.

BUT who said anything about Angus? ;-)

Thank you I have a lot to think about, we still want to AI everyone once, so I do not know what is going to happen.I think to stay on a specific schedule with a one person herd you still need a clean up bull.

BTW.I just found out today from his DNA results that he is not who he is supposed to be.

So I am in the market for a new clean up bull for April/May.Must be pure bred registered Gelbvieh,DNA on file and be a calving ease bull.Not related to Freedom,Boo Boo ,Moderator,Leachman's New Day,Summit or Independance to name a few.Feel free to contact me if you have some that may interest me.Do not want a long haul so please note the location.

Actually thinking of a homozygous black bull.

 

[phillse]

If you breed a homozygous black bull over red cows you will get black cakves unless you have cows that have a dilution gene (such as some simmentals) in that case you might get some gray calves. Not sure what you cows are. If they are Gelbvieh you should get black calves.

 

[randiliana]

Here you go,

E - Black gene
e - Red gene

EE- Black - Homozygous
Ee - Black - Heterozygous
ee - Red - Homozygous

EE x EE = 100% EE

EE x Ee = 75% EE, 25% Ee

EE x ee = 100% Ee

Ee x EE = 75% EE, 25% Ee

Ee x Ee = 25% EE, 50% Ee, 25% ee

Ee x ee = 50% Ee, 50% ee

ee x ee = 100% ee

 

[dun]

The only problem with the heterozygous black (rc) animal is they don;t read the the books. In theory a heterozygous black bred to a red should produce a red calf 50% of the time. In the last 8 years Ol Granny bred to either a Red Angus or a Polled Hereford has produced exactly 1 red calf. Beofre that she was alwasy bred to a homozygous black (I'm assuming homozygous) because all the calves were black.

 

[ArmyDoc]

Thank you.

Now how do I ensure the bull is homozygous can I request DNA testing etc or does a black from a black for so many generations insure it?OR should it be on there registration papers?

Now part two:
a heterozygous black bull, will that give me a red to a red and a black to a black?

Sorry for asking the same question fifty million times, but I appreciate your replies.

Genetic testing can tell you if a bull is homozygous or not. But repeated breedings to red cows can tell you pretty well also. If the bull only throws black calves off red cows, it's probably homozygous. The more times it does it, the better the odds that it's homozygous.

black Bull x red cow -> black calf
1x - 50% chance heterozygous and 50% chance bull is homozygous black
2x - 25 / 75
3x - 12.5 / 87.5
4x - 6.7 / 93.3
5x - 3.4 / 96.6
6x - 1.7 / 98.3
7x - 0.9 / 99.1 - so if it throws only black calves off red cows 7x with no red calves, then there is a 99% probablity that it is homozygous black...

 

[Jeanne - Simme Valley]

Pedigree will tell you if the bull is homozygous black - ONLY if both parents are guaranteed homoz black. DNA test only costs about $40 - so I would want a test done before a new purchase.