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Angus Rocks

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Some of you have probably seen this and maybe it has been talked about on here but which ones of these sires have you liked best?


 

Ebenezer

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Bob, Ambush, Puck. Some of the others are junk and fad bulls or had problems that should have never been tolerated by thinking folks and the breed. That's the way it goes. Money makes the mare trot. Merely an opinion.
 

gizmom

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Back 18 to 20 years ago I set up a genetic criteria. The goal was to have each of the following bulls in each of my cows pedigrees. EXT, 707,Traveler 71 or 8180 bando 155 or 598. Once I accomplished that I could try different paths but before I bred a cow she had to have that basic make up. 20 years later I am stilusing the same criteria, it seems to have worked pretty well for us.

I have a 707 daughter we are flushing she is a beast about as thick deep and wide as you can get one. Her milk EPD sucks but she weans her calf at 672 pounds. I just don’t buy her milk #’s. Three daughters in production all heavy Milker’s sure one to make you scratch your head over. She has been dna tested as well.

Gizmom
 
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Angus Rocks

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gizmom":ky4wv7dt said:
Back 18 to 20 years ago I set up a genetic criteria. The goal was to have each of the following bulls in each of my cows pedigrees. EXT, 707,Traveler 71 or 8180 bando 155 or 598. Once I accomplished that I could try different paths but before I bred a cow she had to have that basic make up. 20 years later I am stilusing the same criteria, it seems to have worked pretty well for us.

I have a 707 daughter we are flushing she is a beast about as thick deep and wide as you can get one. Her milk EPD sucks but she weans her calf at 672 pounds. I just don’t buy her milk #’s. Three daughters in production all heavy Milker’s sure one to make you scratch your head over. She has been dna tested as well.

Gizmom


That is really interesting I have a friend that has 5 genetic lines with some of the same bulls. So how does it work with crossing those old genetics with all the new ai sires?

Can a person trust these epds these days?
 

bse

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707 was born in 1967, probably a little semen out there somewhere it would be very expensive.
Gizmon my 707 daughters EPD`s are crap across the board, but id take a field of them. Alot of older bulls dont enough genomics to tell the true story, in my opinion
 

gizmom

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Bse
The 707 daughter we are flushing has horrible epd’s reg# 15366604 most people would run away from her because of the epd’s. I confess the bulls are hard to market because of numbers but they are the first ones picked when folks come to look. I understand numbers matter but you can’t go by numbers alone especially on those older genetics.

I tried to find a picture of the cow but couldn’t. There is one one our donor page of her. I flushed her to SAV Reign and Coleman EXT 6149 so plan to put those eggs in this year. I have one heifer and four or five bull calves on the ground out of the Coleman EXT 6149 mating and they are really good

Gizmom
 

jscunn

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GM,
So you use the highest CED, CEM, Milk bull you like. Numbers are not as bad as you think..WW YW are pretty good for a 12 yr old cow. You might want to throw high docility into the mix..
 

southernblues

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gizmom":3hr1kjif said:
Bse
The 707 daughter we are flushing has horrible epd’s reg# 15366604 most people would run away from her because of the epd’s. I confess the bulls are hard to market because of numbers but they are the first ones picked when folks come to look. I understand numbers matter but you can’t go by numbers alone especially on those older genetics.

I tried to find a picture of the cow but couldn’t. There is one one our donor page of her. I flushed her to SAV Reign and Coleman EXT 6149 so plan to put those eggs in this year. I have one heifer and four or five bull calves on the ground out of the Coleman EXT 6149 mating and they are really good

Gizmom

She has a -7 CE EPD but I’m willing to bet you’ve never pulled a calf??
 

bse

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gizmon your cow has great epds, this is one were flushing 17427729.(gotcha on milk) flushed her to Response will have a few females hitting the ground in about 30 days or so. will flush her a couple of times this year, maybe Extension and something else. Sexed semen has made it a lot more interesting to flush a cow like this, because your right couldn't move a bull out of her no matter what I used couldn't get numbers up for several yrs.
 

southernblues

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bse":3u4v474o said:
gizmon your cow has great epds, this is one were flushing 17427729.(gotcha on milk) flushed her to Response will have a few females hitting the ground in about 30 days or so. will flush her a couple of times this year, maybe Extension and something else. Sexed semen has made it a lot more interesting to flush a cow like this, because your right couldn't move a bull out of her no matter what I used couldn't get numbers up for several yrs.

Nice!
 

True Grit Farms

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bse":2izzr88k said:
gizmon your cow has great epds, this is one were flushing 17427729.(gotcha on milk) flushed her to Response will have a few females hitting the ground in about 30 days or so. will flush her a couple of times this year, maybe Extension and something else. Sexed semen has made it a lot more interesting to flush a cow like this, because your right couldn't move a bull out of her no matter what I used couldn't get numbers up for several yrs.
Alright I have a question for you and Mrs Debbie. Why would a seedstock producer flush a cow that the offspring isn't highly desirable? And why would someone buy embryos from a cow that doesn't have top of the breed numbers? To me it makes no sense for a commercial cowman to spend that kind of money for a calf to have it's head cut off in 20 months.
 

gizmom

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BSE

You can’t beat that 707 crossed with EXT it just works. I just sit back and watch the folks chase the numbers. Every time I have had a weak moment and chased a number I have ended up disappointed. I won’t say I don’t look at numbers and consider them in my breeding plan but they have to meet the genetic criteria as well. We tried to but a 707 son for a number of years never got it done our pockets weren’t deep enough. We finally purchased a grandson out of 0R5 that was pretty dang good. He left us with some excellent daughters.



This was taken the year before he went bad. My only regret is we didn’t collect him

Vince

A commercial guy is looking 20 months out, a Seedstock producer is looking 20 years out. The 6R109 cow will not have eps’s desirable to the commercial Cattleman but as a breeder I can use her as a foundation to build cattle with better numbers. It doesn’t happen overnight it takes a lot of research to find the right bull that will enhance the EPD profile while at the same time keeping the superior phenotype that the cow offers. You saw this cow when you visited the farm when we got behind her your comment was she is one of thickest I have ever seen, I called her the queen witch lol. I understand what you’re saying we just look at it from different perspectives.

BSE
I tried flushing her to Extension with sexed semen and had a bust. My luck flushing with sexed semen has bee 0.

Gizmom
 

gizmom

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Southernblues

Your right never had to pull out of her or any of her daughters. And like I have said I just don’t buy her milk EPD at all.

Gizmom
 

angus9259

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This is a fascinating topic.

I just purchased a bull calf out of one of the clones to NBar Primrose 2424 - so genetically a maternal brother to EXT. He's young so I'm not sure what he's going to turn into exactly yet but his numbers are horrible because of 2424.
 

bse

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Gizmo hit the nail on the head, not about numbers for me, I want great females that will hopefully produce those superior bulls, gonna take time.
That s a great looking bull.
We used sexed last yr, got along ok. You have to breed them way different than conventional.
9259 I'd think your 2424 bull should do fine, some of these older lines just flat make good females. I used a 338 for clean up hos calves are as good as my AI calves, only difference is he has no name.
 

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