Birthweights

MikeC

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Calf Birthweight Objectives - Mississippi State University

The objective for any producer should be to have as large a calf as possible born to the cow without complications. In most cases the larger the calf at birth, the faster his growth rate, the heavier the weaning weight, and the better the returns to the producer. Match the birthweight of the bull to the size and age of the cow that will have the calf. Low-birthweight bulls are an advantage for heifers, but not necessary or desirable for larger, mature cows.

Is having low-birthweight calves truly the objective a producer should have? Do not get caught up in single-trait selection, and then further into your breeding program wish you had made another choice. The objective should be to have the largest calf you can without problems.

The first thing to remember regarding birthweight is that you will not starve a small calf out of a little cow or heifer. The producers who stop feeding heifers in the last trimester of a pregnancy (to make the calf smaller) usually have a weak cow that will not breed back, will not milk, and will have a stunted calf at weaning. You can overfeed heifers, and sometimes cows, and cause problems, but you are not likely to cause a calf to be appreciably smaller, in utero, by withholding feed from its mother.

The most obvious answer to controlling birthweight is to select a bull that has the genetic potential to sire calves with small birthweights. At one time, producers would routinely select an Angus bull to breed to heifers. Angus had the reputation for producing low-birthweight calves. This is not absolutely true. Also, Brahman cattle were said to be born "like a piece of spaghetti -- long and loose." Some of the largest calves weighed, and unfortunately pulled, have been sired by Brahman and Angus bulls. With the push for larger cattle, birthweights were disregarded. There are more birthweights of 100 or more pounds found, independent of breed and including Angus and Brahman, than producers want to realize. You can no longer look at breed, but you must look at individuals within a breed, to determine low-birthweight bulls. Most breed associations provide EPD's (Expected Progeny Differences) for birthweight, weaning weight, maternal milk, and yearling weight for animals in that particular breed. These are estimates of an individual animal's performance within his or her breed -- it is Angus compared to Angus, Simmental to Simmental, etc., not between breeds. All of these numbers are generated from breed averages for a trait. Breed average is 0, or the benchmark from which all numbers are generated. It is important for producers to know, or have at least a general knowledge of, what the breed average is for each trait in which they are interested. A breed average of 0 for birthweight may be different for a Longhorn and a Chianina. As a guideline, the larger the mature weight of a breed or an individual within a breed, generally the larger the birthweight of that animal.

The objective of most breeding programs is to wean the largest calf possible from each cow. Birthweight and postpartum growth are usually closely related. Generally, calves with large weaning weights (600+ pounds) do not have low birthweights. There are a few bulls that combine small birthweights with large weaning and yearling weights, but they are rare. Most of the time, if calves are big at weaning, they were big at birth.

Low birthweights mean different things to different producers. A cow should have the largest calf she can without complications. Obviously this weight differs if a producer is dealing with a 1,200-pound mature cow, which has had several births, and a 900-pound, first-calve heifer. The 1,200-pound cow could easily have a calf weighing more than 90 pounds, but the 900-pound heifer would likely experience calving problems if calving to the same bull. Conversely, it would be an economic disadvantage to breed a calving-ease bull to the 1,200-pound cow. In most cases, the calf would be much smaller than necessary and would have a slower rate of growth. When you determine optimum birthweights, consider the size, age, and previous calvings when selecting a bull. You will almost never experience calving problems when the calf birthweight is not more than 8% of the cow's bodyweight (80-pound calf/1,000-pound cow).

Another way to determine calf-birthweight maximums, especially in heifers, is to measure the pelvic size of each heifer. This is done with a tool that determines the minimum height and width of the pelvis. This measurement gives the producer an estimate of the size of calf a heifer can birth without complications. A minimum measurement of the pelvis (width x height) is 160 cm-squared for 12- to 14-month-old heifers. These are not absolute numbers, but can give producers an idea how each heifer compares to her contemporaries and whether or not even a low-birthweight bull (70 to 75 pounds or below) would reduce potential calving problems. These measurements give the producer an idea of which heifers are not good risks to calve unassisted.

You should also remember that when crossbreeding, you get heterosis or hybrid vigor in utero as well as after the calf is born. Use moderation in selecting bulls for a crossbreeding program.

Some research has also indicated that Brahman purebred and Brahman-crossbred cows have the ability to control or reduce the birthweight of calves in utero. The opposite may be true when breeding Brahman bulls to English-type cows. Extremely large calves can be the results of these matings. Calf birthweight is the single factor most closely related to difficulty at birth.
 
Good post Mike. Allot of good info there. I have heard many commercial catleman will choose a larger calving bull when they know the make-up of their herd and have mature cows calving. They would much rather take 100, 600 lb calves to the sale then 100, 400 lb'ers. They even say it is worth the losses they might incure with the heavier BW's.
 
1848":3cfuetkg said:
Good post Mike. Allot of good info there. I have heard many commercial catleman will choose a larger calving bull when they know the make-up of their herd and have mature cows calving. They would much rather take 100, 600 lb calves to the sale then 100, 400 lb'ers. They even say it is worth the losses they might incure with the heavier BW's.

Although weight of the calf is important, I have also seen some BIG calves born to small cows without complications due to shape of calf.

My way of thinking is if you don't pull a FEW calves every year, your not pushing the growth envelope potential.

;-) Just thought I would start some controversy. ;-)
 
MikeC":3hlgbhe5 said:
My way of thinking is if you don't pull a FEW calves every year, your not pushing the growth envelope potential.

Interesting theory Mike. Only claves I pulled this year were club calves for the neighbor. But a have a couple cows that even when bred to a calving ease sire will routinely lay down and have a 120 lb calf like it was an 80 lber. I didn't have to pull it, am I not pushing the growth envelope enough? Average birth weight in my herfs and commercial cattle the last 2 years was 89 lbe. That includes heifers. Pull one with a leg back last year and helped a set of twins.
I also have a group of heifers that shouldn't have any problem having 90lb calves. I don't like to pull a correctally presented calf. In my opinion, I shouldn't have to. Growth envelope or not. Corectally presented calf unassisted or she goes to town with the calf.
That's just my theory Mike, but I don't raise "pallet heads" either ;-)
Very interesting article, should be a good thread.
 
MikeC":r3b0ka8z said:
My way of thinking is if you don't pull a FEW calves every year, your not pushing the growth envelope potential.

;-) Just thought I would start some controversy. ;-)

There is a gent near here that thought you should pull 10% of your calves or your not pushing the cows. Now he's pulling close to 100% and is rethinking his concept.
The BW to WW spread is one of the really great advantages to AI. There are outliers that will give you small rapidly growing calves. Persoanlly I would rather challenge the cow to raise a heavy calf then to have a big calf.

dun
 
Well, if you are using these same bulls and the same mentality for replacements, I can see how the neighbor got in the rut, but for a terminal operation some of the risk is worth it.
 
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dun":38qvf2fp said:
Persoanlly I would rather challenge the cow to raise a heavy calf then to have a big calf.

I like that comment. Might have to throw that one past my neighbor. ;-) Might get me more sleep in march. :roll:
 
dun":1cbl1dms said:
MikeC":1cbl1dms said:
My way of thinking is if you don't pull a FEW calves every year, your not pushing the growth envelope potential.

;-) Just thought I would start some controversy. ;-)

There is a gent near here that thought you should pull 10% of your calves or your not pushing the cows. Now he's pulling close to 100% and is rethinking his concept.
The BW to WW spread is one of the really great advantages to AI. There are outliers that will give you small rapidly growing calves. Persoanlly I would rather challenge the cow to raise a heavy calf then to have a big calf.

dun

He should have rethought it way before 100%. ;-)
Why not both challenges? I am not advocating nor challenging a cow to have a bigger calf than is possible. Just pushing the limit to it's maximum.
I am sure we could all come up with horror stories of our neighbors problems, but all in all, a bigger calf at birth will push down on the scales harder. That's what my customers want, and that's what I have to give them!
 
MikeC":a0r1xve9 said:
dun":a0r1xve9 said:
MikeC":a0r1xve9 said:
My way of thinking is if you don't pull a FEW calves every year, your not pushing the growth envelope potential.

;-) Just thought I would start some controversy. ;-)

There is a gent near here that thought you should pull 10% of your calves or your not pushing the cows. Now he's pulling close to 100% and is rethinking his concept.
The BW to WW spread is one of the really great advantages to AI. There are outliers that will give you small rapidly growing calves. Persoanlly I would rather challenge the cow to raise a heavy calf then to have a big calf.

dun

He should have rethought it way before 100%. ;-)
Why not both challenges? I am not advocating nor challenging a cow to have a bigger calf than is possible. Just pushing the limit to it's maximum.
I am sure we could all come up with horror stories of our neighbors problems, but all in all, a bigger calf at birth will push down on the scales harder. That's what my customers want, and that's what I have to give them!

This is where environment starts to rear it's ugly head. Scrawny calves because the forage base isn;t available for the cow to milk and cows that milk too heavy for the forage base are part of the problem. Scrawny calves at weaning that are big framed generally get hit pretty hard at sale time. Cows milking their guts out on a marginal forage base and not breeding back or requiring supplemnt to get them back into shape to calf are both wallet breakers.
Bit I've alwasy been an advocate of managing your grass first, then you'll better know what kind of capabilities your cows should have as far as weaning weights. And realistically, high BW is a short cut to high WW.

dun
 
I am with Mike. Pounds pay. In my opinion you can get the same bw to ww spread heavy bw bulls that you can in light bw bull. There are the sorry exceptions. A calf that is long and deep chested and wide based is going to weigh something. I understand what dun is staying with the forage base to support the cows. In my little bunch of cows I have not had as much trouble making acceptable looking and preforming calves as long as they have plenty of guts. High flanked, tight gutted calves with no width are ugly to me and most buyers. Big gutted wide based calves do well for me and when I sell them seem very pleasing to the buyers . That big set of guts weighs something as well. I am not advocating killing cows or even pulling calves but I say take them as far as you can .
 
Wow dun, I can't be in the business of managing the forage for my customers too!
I am simply pointing out the fact that they don't want those little scrawny 65-70 lb. calves. They want them around 90 with some meat on their back.
 
MikeC":qbcsnjuv said:
Wow dun, I can't be in the business of managing the forage for my customers too!
I am simply pointing out the fact that they don't want those little scrawny 65-70 lb. calves. They want them around 90 with some meat on their back.

I'm looking at it from the commercial producers standpoint. Some buyers may want those big bulls, but they sure don;t work for us.
A cow that drops to a 5 -5.5 BCS breeds back and weans a 600-650 lb calf, gains back to a BCS of 6-6.5 over the winter on stockpiled fescue make money for us.

dun
 
Dun I think some of the other selection criteria you use have as much or more to do with the success of your operation. Frame score namely.
 
MikeC":3n9g69gd said:
Wow dun, I can't be in the business of managing the forage for my customers too!
I am simply pointing out the fact that they don't want those little scrawny 65-70 lb. calves. They want them around 90 with some meat on their back.
Are most of your buyers breeding mature cows or are they pushing for maximum BW in their heifers also? I agree that there is no need for 65-70lb calves in mature cows but there is no need to risk the heifers with their first calf. Most of my buyers are breeding at least some heifers and selling them at weaning so I select for easy calving and growth.
 
Tod Dague":n43097s1 said:
MikeC":n43097s1 said:
Wow dun, I can't be in the business of managing the forage for my customers too!
I am simply pointing out the fact that they don't want those little scrawny 65-70 lb. calves. They want them around 90 with some meat on their back.
Are most of your buyers breeding mature cows or are they pushing for maximum BW in their heifers also? I agree that there is no need for 65-70lb calves in mature cows but there is no need to risk the heifers with their first calf. Most of my buyers are breeding at least some heifers and selling them at weaning so I select for easy calving and growth.

Most of my bull buyers are breeding terminal. I'm not selling bulls with HUGE birthweight EPD's, but surely not the smallest either.
 
MikeC":3l3ikevp said:
Tod Dague":3l3ikevp said:
MikeC":3l3ikevp said:
Wow dun, I can't be in the business of managing the forage for my customers too!
I am simply pointing out the fact that they don't want those little scrawny 65-70 lb. calves. They want them around 90 with some meat on their back.
Are most of your buyers breeding mature cows or are they pushing for maximum BW in their heifers also? I agree that there is no need for 65-70lb calves in mature cows but there is no need to risk the heifers with their first calf. Most of my buyers are breeding at least some heifers and selling them at weaning so I select for easy calving and growth.

Most of my bull buyers are breeding terminal. I'm not selling bulls with HUGE birthweight EPD's, but surely not the smallest either.
That is what I was thinking. IMO 90 lb. is fine for a mature cow. I do not think you need to get over 100 lb.
 
MikeC":32yuxkfe said:
Calf Birthweight Objectives - Mississippi State University

Another way to determine calf-birthweight maximums, especially in heifers, is to measure the pelvic size of each heifer. This is done with a tool that determines the minimum height and width of the pelvis. This measurement gives the producer an estimate of the size of calf a heifer can birth without complications. A minimum measurement of the pelvis (width x height) is 160 cm-squared for 12- to 14-month-old heifers. These are not absolute numbers, but can give producers an idea how each heifer compares to her contemporaries and whether or not even a low-birthweight bull (70 to 75 pounds or below) would reduce potential calving problems. These measurements give the producer an idea of which heifers are not good risks to calve unassisted.


I think the above statement is the key factor. Calves should be as big as possible but you can't poke a golfball through a garden hose. Select your best calves for keepers and get rid of the rest. If they have a small pelvis they should go.
 
You will almost never experience calving problems when the calf birthweight is not more than 8% of the cow's bodyweight (80-pound calf/1,000-pound cow).

Is this referring to mature cows or are first-calf heifers included?

Thanks,
Farmgirl
 
I once herd a 'Big Breeder" say the if a bull calf hit the ground at his place over 80lbs , they cut his nuts out on the spot. He was pushing for calving ease to a point he was using negative BW bulls . He said everybody wanted a low BW bull. That is all they asked was how much was his BW. He was getting 60 -70 lb calves left and right .Later he realized he could not get the WW he once was getting and his customers all started asking for bulls with heavy weaning weights. He finally realized that you could not get those 600 -700 lb WW out of 65 lb calves. Now he will tell you that they better not be any 65 lb calves born on his place . He refuses to use any negative BW bulls on anything except Hiefers. You deffintly give up WW when you drop below a certian point on birth weight . I thought it was a good point to pass along .
 
In rare situations you can have low birth weight and high weaning weights. My Angus bull's actual birth weight was 64 pounds, weaning weight 775 pounds, yearling weight 1450 pounds. He was ranked in the top 10% for weaning to yearling weight and top 5% for calving ease.

His calves averaged 70-75 pounds at birth. I'm getting ready to sell his first calf crop, so while I have an idea of what they weigh, the scales at the sale barn will be proof if I have the right cows with the right bull.

I bought this bull because 60% of my females were heifers. Now, only 20% are heifers, not yet old enough to breed. My cows are medium framed, bcs 5 - 6.5, weaning this month.

Did I make the right choice? Perhaps. Last year I lost 6 heifers to the high BW from a previous bull. This year - I lost 1 - a still born calf. Cow went to the sale. I only pulled one, too, but the cow's hips were rotated and the calf was backwards. She was 1400 pounds and dropped a 80 pound calf. They both went to the sale for poor confirmation.

I'm thinking when I'm ready to sell this bull, I'll get a bigger one and AI the heifers to a low BW bull.

But - my point is we are constantly re-assessing our needs, our bull, and our cows.
 

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