Best Sync to Tighten Up a Calving Window ???

[Stocker Steve]

I used one shot of lute and detect patches to AI heifers last year. Settled 80% the first week so we were off to a good start, but had some bull problems, and bought some cows, so I had a longgg calving season this year. I am considering CIDRs + PG + patches for everyone.

How effective are CIDRs when inserted in cows that have calved 3 to 6 weeks earlier?
How much more successful is breeding on observed heat with patches vs. timed AI?

 

[bse]

If your getting 80% i dont think id change anything. A cidr will only narrow down the # of days to watch i watch on day 2 and 3 where just Lute youd watch through day 6, I have used them on cows at 32 days that had lost a calf and made it work but i think if the calves had lived it would have been much harder to do that at 6 weeks you should be fine. I think if you have the time, obseved heat is deffinetly the best way.

 

[JustSimmental]

1. At least 50 days and preferably 55-60 days post-calving -- insert the CIDR****. Day 1 (am)

2. Give 2ml of Cystorelin Intramuscularly (IM) to clear any cystic ovaries. Day 1 (am)
(Ovarian cysts are non-ovulated follicles with incomplete luteinization and can result in irregular estrus)

3. Pull CIDR Day 7(am).

4. Give 5ml of Lutalyse (IM) to heifers and cows up to 1300 lbs and 6 ml to cows over 1300 lbs.

5. Cows and heifers should show heat in the next 80 hours. Normally 24+ hours after the removal of the CIDR.

6. If no heat is seen by the 80th hour; breed them anyway.

7a. Standing heat in the morning -- breed them in the evening (pm) Later is better; than earlier.

7b. Standing heat in the evening -- breed them in the morning (am) later is better; than earlier.

For that odd duck cow/heifer that cycles say at 2pm and with the am/pm rule would mean a 2 am breeding (optimally) you can give her a 2 ml shot of cystorelin say at 5pm ( which will shut down estrus) and breed her at 8pm with great success.

I used one shot of lute and detect patches to AI heifers last year. Settled 80% the first week so we were off to a good start, but had some bull problems, and bought some cows, so I had a longgg calving season this year. I am considering CIDRs + PG + patches for everyone.

How effective are CIDRs when inserted in cows that have calved 3 to 6 weeks earlier?
How much more successful is breeding on observed heat with patches vs. timed AI?

 

[pdfangus]

most of the AI companies advise that the cow should be at least 45 days post partum before you start to set her up and longer is better. but even starting at 45 days you can move them up a couple of weeks minimum.

I have hadd fairly good luck with moving up late calving cows using synchrony assuming the nutrition is adequate.

 

[cow pollinater]

How much more successful is breeding on observed heat with patches vs. timed AI?

Timed AI would be my choice for tightening up the late calvers. Since you're going to breeding them earlier than you would the rest of your cows there's a real chance that you'll only catch a heat on half of them. A chance on 100% beats a good chance on 50% and the same ones that had a good chance when you only saw half of them in heat will still stand a great chance of conceiving.
Whatever you do, keep that cidr in the equation. They will help you a ton on early lactation cows that may not be cycling yet.

 

[pdfangus]

How much more successful is breeding on observed heat with patches vs. timed AI?

Timed AI would be my choice for tightening up the late calvers. Since you're going to breeding them earlier than you would the rest of your cows there's a real chance that you'll only catch a heat on half of them. A chance on 100% beats a good chance on 50% and the same ones that had a good chance when you only saw half of them in heat will still stand a great chance of conceiving.
Whatever you do, keep that cidr in the equation. They will help you a ton on early lactation cows that may not be cycling yet.

AGREE 100 %

 

[Stocker Steve]

most of the AI companies advise that the cow should be at least 45 days post partum before you start to set her up and longer is better.

What happens at less than 45 days post calving - - reduced observed heats or PG rate or ?

 

[Red Bull Breeder]

Both.

 

[Stocker Steve]

Both.

How low would you go?

 

[cow pollinater]

Both.

How low would you go?

I'm not RBB but I'll give my answer. 30 days on the late calvers. Most of those won't show you a heat but they will likely cycle. The most fertile ones will stand a good chance of becoming pregnant and the rest will stand a good chance of showing you a return heat at around fifty days, which is only five days after most people feel that a cow should be cycling but a few will be pregnant when they get there.
Throw conception rate out the window. Buy a bull that is midrange in price and get after them. Breed them when you give them the gnrh and then again in twenty four hours. The worst case scenario is that they DON'T stick and you're back to waiting for them to cycle, lkie you were already planning on doing, only this way they've had some help and will likely cycle a little faster. Semen is a cheap investment when you consider the cost of a cow staying open an extra twenty-one days...especially when she's on your cull list from the start for being a late calver.

 

[Till-Hill]

With cows what I do and have been working great with 100% A.I. last 2 years is bring cow cows in yard Monday am. Lute and kamar or patches, watch and breed till following Monday am. Insert Cidr and give GnRH. Sunday am lute cows, Monday am pull Cidr, Wednesday am TAI. Only way cows got bred last 2 years. I know only 14 head but saves me half the Cidr's giving that first lute shot and spreads them out just enough for room at calving time.

If a cow is 30 days past calving that first lute shot hit her and breed according. Every once in a while you can get lucky. But as others stated 60 days to put Cidr in is low as I would go.......

 

[Stocker Steve]

I have 50 CIDRs in now. The plan is to pull them and give a shot of lute after 7 days.

Is there any benefit to leaving CIDRs in more than 7 days?
How soon will I start to see standing heats after giving the lute?
As long as they are in the chute next week - -is there any benefit to giving recently calved cows (who did not get a CIDR) lute also?

 

[bse]

Theres no benefit for more than 7days on the cidr on cows. They should start standing aroud 40 hrs some of them anyway breed those at the appropriate time by the time there ready to breed the others should be standing thats assuming you can have 2. breeding times when you breed the first group run the non responders through and give a shot of gnrh the then 12hrs later breed evefthing. As far as lute on the ones without cidrs if they are close to the 45 days after calving it may be worth a shot.

 

[cow pollinater]

I set my first lut show on dairy cattle at thirty days in milk. The response is surprisingly good. It's a good way to clean them up and shorten the calving to breeding window. I don't breed the dairy cattle on that heat but I would on beef if I was trying to tighten up.

 

[Stocker Steve]

I set my first lut show on dairy cattle at thirty days in milk. The response is surprisingly good. It's a good way to clean them up and shorten the calving to breeding window. I don't breed the dairy cattle on that heat but I would on beef if I was trying to tighten up.

Tried the lut on a couple that had calved in the last 3 to 4 weeks. I was surprised that several of them responded.

 

[Stocker Steve]

How much more successful is breeding on observed heat with patches vs. timed AI?

Timed AI would be my choice for tightening up the late calvers. Since you're going to breeding them earlier than you would the rest of your cows there's a real chance that you'll only catch a heat on half of them. A chance on 100% beats a good chance on 50% and the same ones that had a good chance when you only saw half of them in heat will still stand a great chance of conceiving.

We put in 45 CIDRs, and ended up breeding 31 head over 4 days. We only bred if the patch was well worn. Some had few scratchs and would show (totally shned up color patch) standing heat the next day. Others were scratched and just stayed that way for several days. Any suggestions here?

We bred two with shined up patches and they were still standing 36 hours later, so we re bred them. Is this common?

Cows seemed to respond better to CIDRs than heifers. Is this just a random occurrence?

 

[bse]

Thats decent numbers 31out of 45 there not all gonna come in. IBreed everything 72hrs after lute seems like i get about a third of those.THe heifers i use the 33 day deal seems to work better for me. If your there watching all the time keep an eye on them and breed them as needed then i repatch everthing 17 days after to rebreed the ones that didnt settle percentage goes way up when you can do that.Have no idea about them standing that long.

 

[Fire Sweep Ranch]

Those standing 36 hours later, if you gave them a shot of GnrH when you AI'd, should be OK. We had a heifer this year that we AI'd 12 hours after seeing her stand (natural heat), gave her Cystorelin (GnRH), and then observed her standing 12 hours later! I did not have any semen left on the bull we used on her, so I just figured we would see if she stuck. She was ultra-sounded safe, carrying a bull calf, last week at 70 days post AI. So it worked! Never had one go that long on a heat, so I feel lucky!

 

[Double R Ranch]

We always give a shot of GNRH at breeding. The rule in school was if the cow was still standing 2 hours after breeding re-breed. Not had to do that.
30 Days is the earliest I will try and start any sync etc.
Normally we give a shot of lute prior to expected breeding time. Our usual procedure anymore is to give a shot of lute when we give our pre-breeding vaccinations. At which time they will cycle once before we plan on breeding. The second heat we breed on. We have great luck with natural heats being more fertile. If there are stragglers we will throw a cidr, GNRH and wait 7 days. Day 7 pull the cirdr's, give lute and heat detect up to 80 hours. 72 Hours we breed heifers if not showing heat, 80 for cows. If the heat detection is good we have great success. Using these procedures we have a very tight calving window.
Hope this helps,
Double R

 

[Stocker Steve]

Half of the heifers came into heat within 5 days of the lute shot. Is it reasonable to give a second shot of lute to the remaining open heifers 11 days after the first shot of lute? Does this create a problem for any heifers that are not cycling yet?