best place to buy dairy farm

[cbcr]

Here is a link to the incentive program: http://www.komu.com/news/missouri-dairy-revitalization-act-brings-high-hopes-for-farmers/

In the story, it mentions that Missouri is a milk deficit state and we are having to bring milk in from outside of the state for processors.

The prices for milk vary too, here locally the price is from $3.36 per gallon and up. While attending the World Dairy Expo, we bought a gallon of milk in Wisconsin for $2.26 and saw a sign afterward for another store that the price there was $1.98.

It is true that dairies are getting larger and expanding.

The cost for replacements and cows can vary too. If I were starting out in dairy today, I would look more at buying a herd from a producer that is wanting to retire. If buying from other sources, I would definitely look at crossbred cows, (Fleckvieh, Montbeliarde, Viking Reds). These cows are producing right with their Holstein herdmates, but they hold up with better health as well as fertility. The Fleckvieh as a breed is the second largest breed in the World in numbers behind the Holstein.

We represent as a registry, the "Non-Traditional" breeds, and we are seeing several of the top Holstein herds, (many have bulls in bull studs), now beginning to cross and upgrade to purebred status with these breeds. On the recent August genetic evaluations, in looking at the Elite Cow List, our breeds represented 62% of the cows on the list excluding Holstein and Jersey. Also it was interesting to see that the top cow for Net Merit $ by every breed was a crossbred cow.

 

[Son of Butch]

We represent as a registry, the "Non-Traditional" breeds,..... our breeds represented 62% of the cows on the list excluding Holstein and Jersey.

That's like me bragging about being the smartest kid in the dumb class.

 

[TexasBred]

We represent as a registry, the "Non-Traditional" breeds,..... our breeds represented 62% of the cows on the list excluding Holstein and Jersey.

That's like me bragging about being the smartest kid in the dumb class.

:lol: :lol: :clap: :clap: :lol: :lol:

 

[cbcr]

Criticism is OK. To many producers if it isn't the Black and White Holstein, it isn't a diary cow. How many Holstein cows can give birth to twins and produce over 50,000 lbs of milk in a lactation only to have twins again and still producing a second lactation over 50,000 lbs of milk. We deal with criticism everyday, with other breeds and groups not wanting to recognize or acknowledge that other breeds exist and can complete and be more profitable than what they are used to.

But the producers that are crossbreeding are seeing returns in more ways than one. While the Holstein is capable of producing milk, producers are getting tired of selling cows in their first or second lactation due to health and/or reproductive issues. Many raise their own replacements, but they need them to replace cows that they have had to cull and barely have enough replacements. When producers are culling fewer cows and don't need as many replacements, they now have surplus animals to sell, which return far greater profit than selling cull cows. Another advantage when selling bull calves off the farm, when using the Fleckvieh or Montbeliarde the calves look like a black baldy and with these markings when the time comes to send them to market they don't get docked like they would if it were a Holstein.

When producers cross breed, the production with these crossbreeds is holding and producing very well right along side of their Holstein herdmates, but with higher components of fat and protein.

Replacements cost to raise, (this is true whether you are talking dairy or beef), but if they can't stay in the herd long enough to recoup the cost of raising them, that is money that can't be recovered.

We have one member that went back and looked thru his records. In a year that he had an equal number of Holstein and Crossbred heifers born, after looking the information up, he discovered that he only had 1 Holstein left in the herd in production compared to still having 9 of the crossbred cows.

When looking at the Elite Cow List, when we started 2 years ago, our breeds represented around 49% of the animals on the list excluding Holstein and Jersey.

We have moved into the age of genomics with our "Red" breeds and we are continually showing better genomic results than the Ayrshire animals that have been genomic tested.

Internationally, the Fleckvieh is the second largest breed in numbers only behind the Holstein.

So, if you are implying that producers with crossbred dairy cows are smarter, then we appreciate your comments!! Even bankers are beginning to open their eyes to the advantages of these "Non-Traditional" breeds. This is a new era in the dairy industry not just here in North America, but globally as well. These breeds are here to stay!!!

 

[Georgelara]

I had great results with Cortavet....works out cheaper than cortaflex as it has a higher potency. Cannot remember where I got it now but it was an online place and about ?35 for 2 months was the best price I found.

 

[TexasBred]

Internationally, the Fleckvieh is the second largest breed in numbers only behind the Holstein.

So, if you are implying that producers with crossbred dairy cows are smarter, then we appreciate your comments!! Even bankers are beginning to open their eyes to the advantages of these "Non-Traditional" breeds. This is a new era in the dairy industry not just here in North America, but globally as well. These breeds are here to stay!!!

YOu better be able to get BIG if you plan to survive. I'm talking many thousands of head in one location and location is becoming more and more of a problem for future dairy operations. The day of the mom and pop 40 cow dairy is history unless you plan to try to fill some small niche market. Only thing that can meet the demand here is the holsteins, jerseys and crosses from the two.

 

[frieghttrain]

I wouldn't choose Montbeliarde a dairy farm that milks 250 head by us says they have really bad hooves.

 

[cbcr]

Internationally, the Fleckvieh is the second largest breed in numbers only behind the Holstein.

So, if you are implying that producers with crossbred dairy cows are smarter, then we appreciate your comments!! Even bankers are beginning to open their eyes to the advantages of these "Non-Traditional" breeds. This is a new era in the dairy industry not just here in North America, but globally as well. These breeds are here to stay!!!

YOu better be able to get BIG if you plan to survive. I'm talking many thousands of head in one location and location is becoming more and more of a problem for future dairy operations. The day of the mom and pop 40 cow dairy is history unless you plan to try to fill some small niche market. Only thing that can meet the demand here is the holsteins, jerseys and crosses from the two.

You say this comment, but why is it that some of the top Holstein herds in the country are also crossbreeding? Seagull Bay Dairy, who bred Seagull Bay Supersire, which is one of the two top bulls of the Holstein breed that they bred. Here is a link to an article that was recently published. http://www.dairyherd.com/magazine/crossing-pure-profit

A Montbeliarde cow in a California herd calved with twins, produced over 50,000 lbs of milk, had twins a second time and had another lactation of over 50,000.

If you are selling cows in their first or second lactation, with the costs involved to raise those replacements, is not very profitable. But on the other hand if you can have an animal that can stay around for 5 or more lactations, makes a lot more sense. Many producers have had a hard time keeping enough replacements to replace cows that have to be culled. With crossbreds, producers have surplus animals to sell, have a much healthier herd, production is pretty equal to Holsteins.

 

[TexasBred]

You bring out the exception rather than the rule.

http://www.progressivedairy.com/topics/ ... -pound-cow

 

[Stocker Steve]

There are different approaches and different locations for different business models. But, it is hard to optimize when milk prices change so fast. In the past, reports were:

- New Zealand was the best place for a grazing diary with cross bred cows.
- South western US was the best place for high production confinement dairy with purebred cows.

We continue to see traditional diaries close in our local area, with many of the folks that are planning to continue transitioning to organic. The major growth regionally is in 10,000+cow industrial diaries staffed by Hispanics along the MN/SD border.

 

[cbcr]

You bring out the exception rather than the rule.

http://www.progressivedairy.com/topics/ ... -pound-cow

Not an exception, crossbreeding is on a continual growth. We have 1 to 2 calls daily from producers looking for bulls of our breeds. The bulls of our breeds are selling for well over $4,000 per head and their are few bulls available.

To often producers are so closed minded and think that if a milk cow isn't black and white, then it is not a milk cow. Bankers also fall into this close minded group.

The Fleckvieh being the second largest breed in numbers in the World only behind the Holstein says something in itself, that means they our number Jersey's too.

What is really ironic is that some producers have tried some crossbreeding, and usually end up using the semen on the cow that they are having problems getting bred or they use it on one of the lower end producing cows just so that they can prove that a crossbred can't produce. What happens, the animal that they were thinking would be a failure is producing right with or above Holstein herd mates. Just think what the outcome would have been had they used the semen on some of the higher producing animals.

Their is too many advantages to crossbred dairy animals, but some people as the saying goes "can't seem to see the forest for the trees" and are unwilling and unable to think outside the box.

Don't get us wrong, the Holstein is still a good animal, but she has been bred so much for production and they will kill themselves trying to produce. What value does a dead cow have? Utilizing our strength breeds, Fleckvieh and Montbeliarde, will produce an animal that is able to sustain that higher milk production and is more sound, fertile, healthier, more trouble free, and longer-lived.

 

[TexasBred]

You still point out the exception rather than the rule. True cross bred animals have performed well on dairies but most are basically a dead end. What do you then breed them to, in hopes of continuing to increase production and components? Most problems in all dairy cow breeds have more to do with the environment and management rather than genetics. Pushed to the limit any breed of dairy animal will fold.

 

[cbcr]

You still point out the exception rather than the rule. True cross bred animals have performed well on dairies but most are basically a dead end. What do you then breed them to, in hopes of continuing to increase production and components? Most problems in all dairy cow breeds have more to do with the environment and management rather than genetics. Pushed to the limit any breed of dairy animal will fold.

I don't know why you think that crossbred dairy animals are a dead end. Producers are using the ProCross system which is a continual 3-way cross of Holstein, Montbeliarde and Viking Red. Some are substituting Fleckvieh in place of the Montbeliarde. Others are breeding to to purebred animals of these breeds as well. We have one member that has just a few Holstein cows left in the herd and everything else is at least 50% up to purebred with a few fullbloods (from ET).

There are many thing that are inherited in all animals and some traits have a higher heritable % than others. Key fact, dairymen are seeing with crosses increased fertility, higher components, lower somatic cell counts, healthier animals and longer productive life.

US research has indicated that Montbeliarde and Scandinavian Red crossbred cows in particular are more profitable than Holsteins!

The high milk production potential and high efficiency for milk production of the Holstein cow has led to the dominance of the Holstein breed in many parts of the world. However, selection programs that resulted in these high levels of milk production largely ignored functional traits. The subsequent decline in fertility, health and longevity within the Holstein population has now been thoroughly documented. As a result, the additional benefits gained with the Holstein breed, through increased milk production efficiency, have been lost through poorer cow health and longevity.

One producer commented that looking back to a year when an equal number of female Holsteins to Crossbreds was born (49 Crossbreds to 50 Holsteins), that today, only 1 of those Holsteins compared to 9 Crossbreds are still producing in the herd. This is pretty typical, the crossbred animals have fewer health problems. Producers with crossbred animals get to the point they have surplus animals to sell because they are not having to replace as many cows that are leaving the herd.

Environment does have an impact on an animal, but you have to have an animal that can be able to perform in those environments. With all things being equal, why is it that the crossbred animals are able to hold up better in these environments and management than the traditional breeds? Genetics?

Arguments can be made both ways, but those that are crossbreeding are continuing with their crossbreeding and liking the results. On the last several dairy genetic evaluations, looking at the elite cow list which is the top 5% of all cows, registered or grade, the top animals of every breed are crossbred animals. This includes what is called our traditional dairy breeds of Holstein, Jersey, Brown Swiss, Ayrshire, Guernsey and Milking Shorthorn. Some of these breeds, the majority of animals on the list are crossbred in that breed.

Crossbreeding or our breeds may not be for everyone, but those that have tried it are happy with the results and doing more crossbreeding.

 

[TexasBred]

Many that have tried it were also very unhappy with the results and returned to their purebreds. Crossbreeding can definitely affect components in a positive way but will almost never increase production when attempted with high producing Holsteins.

You refer to the cow that produced 50K of milk in one year. That would be the exception right?? And an even greater exception to do it two lactations consecutively. Now consider the Holstein that produced 75K in one lactation. That's 50% more yet I will admit too that she is definitely the exception.

 

[cbcr]

The primary reason that some were unhappy with the results, is they did not give it a fair trial. They used the bulls on lower end cows and occasionally on some of the higher producers when they couldn't get them bred. They set themselves up for failure and then want to criticize the outcome. But the surprising thing is some of the resulting offspring produced quite well.

There have been study's don that show that crossbred animals can and are more profitable than Holsteins.

The Holstein that produced the 75K of milk was pampered and cared for special. The Montbeliarde cow was not.

Dead cows are not profitable! Dead calves are not profitable! Vet bills are not cheap either!!

To many people, they are so set in their ways and opinions that anything other than a Holstein is not a milk cow!

Crossbreeding is not for everyone, especially when they want to try and prove it is a failure and then criticize it.

 

[TexasBred]

The primary reason that some were unhappy with the results, is they did not give it a fair trial. They used the bulls on lower end cows and occasionally on some of the higher producers when they couldn't get them bred. They set themselves up for failure and then want to criticize the outcome. But the surprising thing is some of the resulting offspring produced quite well.

There have been study's don that show that crossbred animals can and are more profitable than Holsteins.

The Holstein that produced the 75K of milk was pampered and cared for special. The Montbeliarde cow was not.

Dead cows are not profitable! Dead calves are not profitable! Vet bills are not cheap either!!

To many people, they are so set in their ways and opinions that anything other than a Holstein is not a milk cow!

Crossbreeding is not for everyone, especially when they want to try and prove it is a failure and then criticize it.

And you know all this to be fact even though you probably have no idea who my fellow dairymen were that tried this for years and it did not work.....And apparently neither are full blood "anything" for everyone according to you.

 

[cbcr]

The primary reason that some were unhappy with the results, is they did not give it a fair trial. They used the bulls on lower end cows and occasionally on some of the higher producers when they couldn't get them bred. They set themselves up for failure and then want to criticize the outcome. But the surprising thing is some of the resulting offspring produced quite well.

There have been study's don that show that crossbred animals can and are more profitable than Holsteins.

The Holstein that produced the 75K of milk was pampered and cared for special. The Montbeliarde cow was not.

Dead cows are not profitable! Dead calves are not profitable! Vet bills are not cheap either!!

To many people, they are so set in their ways and opinions that anything other than a Holstein is not a milk cow!

Crossbreeding is not for everyone, especially when they want to try and prove it is a failure and then criticize it.

And you know all this to be fact even though you probably have no idea who my fellow dairymen were that tried this for years and it did not work.....And apparently neither are full blood "anything" for everyone according to you.

Study after study has been done and proven the benefits of crossbreeding. Here is another link to the ProCross Facebook page where a study was done in Denmark, https://www.facebook.com/ProCross-153490411401564/ Here is another link from Bayern Genetics on two herd in the US and herds in Canada using Fleckvieh: http://www.fleckvieh.de/Fleckviehwelt/World/FVW_2012/World-28-32.pdf

You have not shown anything just comments and statements that Holsteins are superior.

 

[TexasBred]

cbcr it's a fairly well known fact that no breed will consistently out milk a herd of good Holsteins when the competition is in the same climate, same feeding program, same milking program and statistics back that up. !!!!! Of course you can always find the occasional exception. You can also relocate those high producing herds of any breed 200 miles either direction and all your numbers will go to he//.

 

[cbcr]

cbcr it's a fairly well known fact that no breed will consistently out milk a herd of good Holsteins when the competition is in the same climate, same feeding program, same milking program and statistics back that up. !!!!! Of course you can always find the occasional exception. You can also relocate those high producing herds of any breed 200 miles either direction and all your numbers will go to he//.

Typically, Holstein may produce around 5% more milk, but if you look at the components, then our breeds are higher. Even thought the Holstein may outproduce some breeds, the feed to milk conversion ration is quite high. Other breeds are much more feed efficient thus resulting in more net profit per cow.

But net profit per cow with crossbreds also increases due to better cow health, lower SCC, better fertility, stronger, etc.

Advantage of Crossbred vs Staightbred Animals Trait Percentage
Cow Efficiency 8%
Cow Longevity 38%
Cow Lifetime Production 25%

 

[TexasBred]

Table 1. First Lactation Milk Production (actual 305 with 2x milking)
Holstein Montbeliarde Scandinavian Red
. x Holstein x Holstein
Number of Cows 380 494 328
Milk (lbs) 21,801 20,305** 20499**
Protein (lbs) 777 743** 756
Fat (lbs) 677 645** 655**
Fat + Protein (lbs) 1,454 1,388** 1,411*

Milk is sold by the hundredweight which I'm sure you know but components even though figured as percentages are also sold by the pound. Holsteins will produce more pounds of milk as well as more pounds of butterfat and protein. SCC is a management function as is breeding, calving ease and culling. Basically you guys are promoting a breeding program and a resulting offspring then operating the system to give the results you want. Down here in this area a normal Holstein will out milk a Jersey by 6000 lbs. per 305 day lactation.